McKenna ... the great

   watching a short clip of Mckenna always causes me to watch another,and another, but it's been a while,,so thanks Gary,I liked that one

Cool speech but I'm pretty sure he was an agent of MK Ultra - cia to promote psychedelics. Jan Irvin of gnostic media has done extensive research and found a clip where he is pretty much admitting it. What psychedelics do more than anything is make the mind very susceptible to suggestion and control.

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/category/gnosticpodcast/

If he is, he sure never let on in word or spirit in anything I ever heard from him, and I have listened to all I could find.  I think he would be delightfully amused at that notion, and then get on with whatever he was doing or talking about.  He was one of the free-est spirit/souls I ever seen.

His and his brother's research was very personal and very extensive.  He grew a mushroom garden for his research at his home in Hawaii.  I wish he was still with us.  What a great and free mind!!!!

He proposed the idea that monkeys came out of the trees and ate mushrooms growing on dung, and that the ones who did this were accelerated in their evolutionary development.  He even thought that some of these mushroom types could have been of extra-terrestrial origin because there is no clear evolutionary link to them from the past prior to them showing up on Earth...

As a brave explorer, he gladly took personal response-ability for his own experiments on himself, but never seemed like the kind of person willing to do hideous experiments on others, especially without their knowledge as was with the MK Ultra program....

One thing is undeniably clear - he was always talking about something interesting and intriguing...

Yes, I heard something similar about McKenna, Wendy.  I'm not sure what to believe, but if this quote is true, it answers Gary's question.

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent

We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

Questioner: I’m real curious about one thing. Why is it important for you to do this?

Terence McKenna: I wonder myself. You mean am I the alien ambassador whether I like it or not? [laughs]. Well, often when asked this question, I've said it beats honest work. I mean, my brother is a PhD in three subjects and works in hard science and yet I don't think it's brought him immense happiness. Not that he's despondent. But I was always kind of a slider. You know?

And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then they recruited me and said, "you know, with a mouth like yours there's a place for you in our organization". And I've worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I've been there to the present.

Here's a recording of him saying it in his own voice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASQiXVa3LB8

Thanks for finding that clip Noa. Yeah, the guy seemed innocent enough but I think he was part of a larger program to promote drug use in order to tear apart traditional values so that society could be remolded as the powers that be wanted. If you look at the 60's in that way, it makes sense. Jan Irvin has done extensive research on "popular culture" during the 60's - from music to academic research to book promotion.

"And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then they recruited me and said, "you know, with a mouth like yours there's a place for you in our organization". And I've worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I've been there to the present."

It's possible that McKenna sold himself out for money.  That seems to be what he is admitting here, doesn't it?

this post is really setting off something in me,,,,be back later

Classic Terence McKenna sense of humor moment in that clip.  the impression I got from his talks is that he really believed that certain stimuli (mushrooms, dmt, ayahuasca) were responsible for accelerating human evolution and could still be very useful in furthering that campaign, given the proper guidance by "learned shaman types" as part of the very carefully executed equation.

I appreciated his thoughts on that, but seemed to me to be too far out there, too much a romantic dream to ever happen.  That said, we know that it happens to this day in small indigenous pockets of humanity around the globe, and we know Ayahuasca has helped people sort stuff out, so who knows....

I also got the impression he felt strongly that we were running out of time, that human spiritual/psychological progress was not keeping up with the technological trouble we were getting ourselves into.  He felt we needed an edge to play catch up en mass if we were going to avoid a die off or possibly self-inflicted extinction.

would be cool to have a chat with his brother Dennis about all this....

speaking of talking to Dennis, here's the next best thing in book form

The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss

and here is Graham Hancock specifically addressing the main subject of this forum post...

Graham Hancock - Terence McKenna used language with the...

This whole thing about Terence (and then reading what Graham Hancock says) made me think of 9-11 and how easily people can adopt one little pet debunking notion to dismiss what 9-11 Truthers have been saying so clearly all along.  How easily the mind runs with something amiss, but sticks with it due to ego investment, much like religion and outdated science in a way.

And that feeling you get like, I've discovered a "gotcha" proof on the internet!  And the moment I run with that delicious feeling of presumed accurate discovery I have momentarily abandoned my critical thinking.  It is so easy to do with all the internet info out there these days.  I have to be so careful that I don't jump to conclusions too quickly in this whirlwind of cyber info just because I read it on the internet.

And then lately with all this Republican grilling of Hilary Clinton about Benghazi.  No concerns about the bullshit official story of 9-11, but they're just wrought and completely bent out of shape about 4 dead in  Benghazi!  Over 3000 people died that day on GW's watch in a blatantly obvious false flag event (just watch building 7 fall), and then so many more dead in the middle east since then based upon a colossal opportunistic lie, but Benghazi is what keeps them up at night!  Critical thinking may be dead in DC, but lets try and keep it alive here on the G-Spot...

Damn we live in crazyland times!!!!

I have discovered my psychedelic experiences to be indispensable toward personal growth. There are many ways people keep their minds and beliefs closed up to the world... ANYTHING can be a tool for growth or a detriment and limitation. It's all in HOW you use it. 

Good to keep a sense of humor and some brevity! 

I've always liked McKenna and recognize his unique and brilliant take on things.

However, with respect to the conversation in these posts, here's a clip from the same talk apparently that the original clip (posted by Gary) is from, in which he discredits "conspiracy theory", which makes me wonder if he really had (and still has) a role in keeping people asleep in some key areas, either by design or because he really didn't get some of what's going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKTcRzFF45Y

How would you explain his remarks in this clip?

Thank for your remarks Chris, Lots of good points. I still like Jan Irvin's work, I think he is a good researcher but I'm not sure if he is right about McKenna and as for psychadelics, I haven't personally tried them so I'm in no position to talk about what effect they have, either positive or negative other than what I hear from others.

It was unfortunate that McKenna placed the term "conspiracy theories" in with many generalizations to make his greater point of the mental world view trap we find ourselves in, but I understand the greater point he was making.  the majority of humans are (as you know Bob) completely unaware of the mental "blue pill" trap they are swimming in, immersed in from birth, much like a fish would not know what the hell you were talking about when you attempt to describe the water they are swimming in.

anyone who has experimented with entheogens knows how abruptly you are cast out of the waters of your own very personal world view and forcefully introduced to some other completely different and amazing perspectives.  some have religious experiences.  some laugh their asses off and have sore stomach muscles the next day.  some are so frightened of being forced to see something other than the familiar that they have a bad trip due to their desperate struggle, trying so hard to get back to their comfortable familiar mental/psychological/emotional existence.

I trust you got the main point of that 8 minute clip.  Like I said, it's unfortunate that McKenna put conspiracy theories in with all the other generalizations he mentioned to make his point, but remember, 9-11 had not happened yet at the time of that talk.  Even then, I imagine if I presented all the data that leads me to believe what I believe about 9-11, he would say something like, "yes, I believe you are correct in your findings, but now what?"

In the context of what he was getting at, it would still be the brand new world "described by vision and language" that he would be leading the audience towards.  You can imagine someone in the audience saying, "yea, but still Terence, we need to convince the world of what really happened on 9-11 or it will keep happening!"

And he might say something like, "it will keep happening anyway until we the people break free from the gravitational pull of our own familiarity of history.  It is us who must break free!  Each of us somehow!  And when enough of us do, maybe, just maybe we can fade the old tired monkey mind world and enter a fresh new one."

"We can begin to evolve again, get to a better place that completely transcends the old paradigm that allows for such hideous inclinations of the old monkey mind."  I really shouldn't be attempting to talk for him.  Just trying to stay in the context of what he was primarily getting at in that 8 minute clip...

We wont go quietly he said in that clip.  Couldn't agree more!  Was listening to Democracy Now this morning, as we do each weekday morning at 5 to 6am, and the line of the day that came to mind was, "how can anyone enjoy the movie when the theater's on fire".

My guess is (if we don't go extinct before then) we will evolve to a place where people will not be able to enjoy their own personal existence/life while others are suffering.  This would create a self-correcting culture of human beings.  Mckenna was pretty convinced that we need some form of accelerated process to gidder dun before we did ourselves in....

I got to thinking about one other thing Terence might have said (about 9-11) if he were still alive is,

"so let's say 9-11 was a false flag event orchestrated by some very rich and powerful individuals passing orders down the line to certain individuals in agencies like Mossad, the CIA, the FBI, etc., and enough people put pressure on the system to actually uncover the ruse and convict and imprison some people like GW, Cheney, Chertoff, Silverstein and others."

"What do you think this would accomplish?"

"What would people around the globe be doing one year from those convictions?"

"What changes would each of us still have to make in our own lives to really move humankind forward, and would enough of us be willing to make those changes, or would people just want to forget about all the drama and get on with their own personal and individual lives and comfort zones?"

I think we already know the answer to that last question because we are all right in the middle of, or at least the beginning of a climate change catastrophe that threatens all or most life on this planet, has already brought extinction to 1000's of other species, and humankind is arguing about the validity of the fire in the theater!

I don't think McKenna was simply dismissing "conspiracy theories" as much as he was saying that uncovering them was not going to get the job done - was not going to accomplish the actual thing that needs to happen.  He was transcending all of the pet political/personal concerns and getting to the real issue to be solved, the response-ability of each of us.  9-11 Truthers like myself would have this sense of victory for a spell and others would just say to themselves, "wow, so that really was true, what my crazy friend was saying about 9-11, and then get on with their lives...

Speaking of global climate change, there's a real good movie that gets into the subject and our collective unwillingness to change in time called The Thaw with Val Kilmer.

Great movie if can stomach watching it...

You're right, Chris, uncovering conspiracy theories or knowing about species extinctions isn't enough for many people to get off the couch and do something.  On the other hand, speaking for myself, finding out that 9/11 was an inside job completely changed how I relate to the world.  It's given me a new purpose and direction in life.  Although it's easy to get lost down some of the rabbit holes, conspiracies have given many people like Max Igan, Santos Bonacci, and others the impetus to improve the mess we're in.  It only takes a few people to change the world.

In this life of unlimited choices, we find out what we want (to create) by knowing what we don't want.  In this way, even a negative thing can be a positive.

Same happened for me.  Building 7 was my rabbit hole and I never looked back.  In this forum post I am speaking in my posts in the context of where I imagine Terence McKenna is coming from, what he is attempting to convey.  I wish more people's eyes would open when presented with logical sensible 9-11 info, but more often than not they just want to get back to their own personal cush existence and believe I'm completely ridiculous for believing in such nonsense.  I remember thinking that way about "conspiracy theorists".  It was like waking from a hypnotic dream when I final got it!  Never underestimate the pervasive power of that hypnotic dream...

I think global climate change will be the game changer that forces people out of their comfort zones.  Trouble is, by then it will most likely be too late to do much about it - the damage will be done and there will most likely be a die-off.  The Air Force is doing the geo-engineering chemtrails just to buy us more time.

What insanity!  Time for what?  To do even more damage and magnify the horrendous effect?  I hold out a tiny bit of hope for some kind of upside surprise.  What gives me the most hope is knowing that this planet can withstand much more than the viral human infection can.  But then I think, what happened to Mars???

Yes, thanks for your comments on McKenna, Chris.  I agree.  And I forgot that the video predates 9/11. 

Regarding your and Noa's take on climate change, however, I do have a different view.  Let's just say that the jury is still out (in my mind anyhow) on how lethal the change that has occurred is to life on the planet, and to what extent we have caused it.  I yearn for a public forum where scientists with opposing views are allowed to be part of the debate.  The fact that they aren't is in itself a red flag for me.  In any case, we do need to clean up our act; no argument about that.  But we've already had that discussion here a couple of times.

It's true that McKenna is all about being conscious outside the matrix.  He was a phenomenon.  Does anyone know how he died?

   I decided not to comment a couple of days ago,as I didn't really have anything to add. I know Chris is well versed in most of Terrence's ideas,motives,etc..... First of all,,,even if he had signed on with the fbi,,,what would he have been  doing? It's not like he could trick anyone into tripping,,,if I had met him when I was 14 I  would of known he was a tripper right off.He was such a free thinker,no boundaries,,or at least, ay beyond the average. If  he had signed on with them,I would think it wold have been to keep his "enemies closer", haha< why not? It sure would turn the tables,and probably bring him immunity from all that legislation that was being formed back then to make shrooms illegal. I had a neighbor that was one of the first to bearrested for picking shrooms, he was the laughing stock of the neighborhood.....But, I don't understand what exactly it is that he was supposed to be doing for them,,,if he did at all...   One thing is for sure,,,he was too brilliant a man to be played by them.....

As far as climate chnge goes,,,I have no doubt it's happening,,, but i don't believe it is due to automobile exhaust and air conditioners.... The combustion engine is 100 years outdated,,,but that doesn't make it the cause. I believe it is much more likely that the position of our solar system in the galaxy,,,,which is constantly changing, is more likely the reason, as it has been shown that all the planets are being affected,not just Earth. So,the Earth is always doing this dance with the cosmos,and it's relation to,distance from,etc., with all those millions of other participants in the dance. It is part of why Earth is an ever changing organism. It is why I have never committed to any belief systems,religions,etc., as most have a fixed system to adhere to. We live in an electric universe, and that discovery opens a new way of understanding how inter-related our conditions are with other bodies in space. We used to just measure gravitational effects based on distance and speed,,but electricity brings new understanding to alignments, and probably every other aspect of astronomy and physics. The gradual but steady changes make it even more suspect,as with the great distances beteween celestial bodies, and our spaceship earth constantly hurdling through the galaxy,our interactions with other bodies would happen and change gradually as we approach,,,then fade after our closest point in passing,,,not necessarily reversing after that point,,,but gradually changing again, in relation to all that surrounds us... Throwing electricity  into the equation made so much sense on a microcosmic level,,as our bodies are basically electricity,and water,,,,,and space,,,all that space between the molecules.  As a believer in looking at the"bigger picture", I would give much more creedence to an inter-galactic theory of warming  over our co2 theory based only on chemical measurements taken over time.

Lots of interesting speculation about McKenna - I would think the conspiracies he was probably referring to was the JFK & MLK assassinations. There are plenty of holes in those as well but I admit it's probably easier to see them now as so much more research has come out since then.

I still think the main objective was simply an overall campaign to promote drug use and tear down traditional family values. I know this sounds like tea party crap but what I see is that they did succeed in this in many ways and the end result has been a destruction of culture that created a "clean slate" for them to create new values that are more consistent with the new world order - apathy and confusion being the main new values as society was torn apart - particularly, children and the younger generations were pitted against older generations, meaning that the wisdom of the older generations was lost.

I agree with you Bob and Todd about the cause of global warming/climate change, that there are other factors to the equation.  I see it as a kind of perfect storm scenario in this place and time.  I have had this discussion with my honey bunny and when I talked about the other factors and what the Earth is capable of on her own at times, she felt I was denying what she believes is the primary cause, CO2 and methane.

I think many factors have come to the dance for the perfect storm.  We'll see how it plays out....

To Wendy, Terence just wasn't the type to be interested in joining forces with some insidious hidden agenda to weaken the family structure via drug use.  His experiences are very personal and he was so impressed with the very intelligent beings that communicated with him during his trips that he was utterly and spontaneously compelled from the depths of his honest being to share, to be an evangelist of sorts in helping interested free-thinking people consider the overall possibilities for themselves and for humanity as a whole.

If anything, he was attempting to save the family, the family of human beings on this planet that have strayed from a sane course of being, but I always felt that was being a bit overly optimistic.  A very brave and courageous soul for dreaming that big though!!!

But he most definitely believed in free will and personal response-ability.  I do believe there were some that would fit into that category of such an insidious agenda, but not Terence.

Oh, and he died of a very rare form of brain cancer.  Very rare and completely unrelated to the ingestion of entheogens...

Since there was a substantial response here to my brief comments about global warming above, I'm posting a relevant article in a new thread.  I guess it's a subject that just won't fade away, nor should it.

        But the discoveries one makes the first time they experience a different reality lead them to question everything, and at a young age that includes your family life. IMO those things needed to be questioned, but it didn't destroy my family values, it only gave me a new perspective on them. I saw my dad working his ass off to  feed 4 kids that he had so little time to spend with,,,,,because he was too busy trying to support them! My mom holding it all together, also working so we would have enough to survive. I felt a new kind of love for them,and also felt a little sorry for them too. I felt like they both had given up their lives to have a family,,because that's what people did then, school, college, marriage, kids, then the struggle to have enough...that vicious cycle of slavery that the multitudes are caught in...   So I tried to respect that, but also saw that, their  decisions were usually based on that cycle of  survival, and I knew that, if they had time to consider options from another point of view,  they might make different decisions....  After my first experience , I quickly grew a distaste for the ""because I said so"  attitude!

I saw so much beauty in my experiences, I couldn't stand that I could never talk with them about it,,,so I stopped having them for a long time

Many cultures use mind altering plants and concoctions as "coming of age" rituals for young men, to open their minds.  I think more should do that...The connection between those involved  becomes so much stronger after sharing these types of experiences, I wish I had done it with my dad!

Thanks guys  - at some point when opportunity strikes I'll have to take a trip. I've kind of overdone it on eating weed and had sort of a trip but I imagine that is no comparison to the experiences I could be missing out on. Hopefully some time I'll have the right opportunity to experiment more.

I've experienced psychedelics (mushrooms and lsd) 40+ times and never had a "bad trip". Ayahuasca and salvia a couple times... definitely weird and different but not frightening. With the former, your perception is altered and senses skewed. With the latter, you actually experience an alternate reality disconnected from your current setting. Even as far as other beings presence and communication. Lots could happen! ...

Next on the old agenda is ACTUAL time/space travel...

BttF again! 

I've experienced psychedelics (mushrooms and lsd) 40+ times and never had a "bad trip". Ayahuasca and salvia a couple times... definitely weird and different but not frightening. With the former, your perception is altered and senses skewed. With the latter, you actually experience an alternate reality disconnected from your current setting. Even as far as other beings presence and communication. Lots could happen! ...

Next on the old agenda is ACTUAL time/space travel...

BttF again! 

Wendy, have a close loving sympathetic friend with you to ensure yourself a good lovely experience!!!!

True that, Chris. ESPECIALLY with the latter...

Also, having a safe and familiar out-of-doors playground. Staying inside can get REALLY weird. But, also can be fun to experiment with. Other "normal" people can throw one off too. Usually with much laughter. "Reality" just seems so unreal. Like an alien visiting some foreign planet.

Happy travels!

2 other things came to mind.  Have a conscious idea of why you are taking the journey - it helps to keep you grounded while flying, so to speak.  and the other thing, if you owe anyone an apology, anything you need to do to make something right with someone or thing and clear your mind, by all means do it.

the quality and enjoyability of your trip depends on it....

  Yeah, it's amazing how much difference that makes,,,the average home is so.......fake,,,it just makes you want to,,,,,,,,go outside!

Funny you guys should say that - my husband was with me for the weed "trip" and it was actually aweful because he was trying to make me laugh but during the trip it just felt like he was laughing at me, not with me.

I swear there are certain things like flowers though that I will never see the same way though. Now they seem so much more alive, like they have personalities that are talking to me.

There's consciousness in ALL. And individuality...

The trick comes in not anthropomorphising everything, like Disney does. Major mistake of world religions as well. Making "God" in our image. It never set well with me. Until the framework the WingMakers philosophy put around it all. Now, it makes absolute sense to me. Although the understanding of that gets a little tricky, because everyone wants a personal god. Which they have! But the big "G" can't be so easily defined, pigeonholed, or put in a box. Actually, that's absolutely impossible