Last night when I first heard about Osama being shot and killed and then dumped into the ocean, I felt a huge wave of sadness which hasn't left yet. The sadness is more than the death of one mean man. It is a caldron of mean, sick people who control too much of this planet. Our government must have been done with the guy they created so they got rid of him at the point that his death could possibly put an end to the 9/11 truth seekers.
Does anyone want to talk about this?
Why? It seems convenient that there isn't a body. Idon't get it and I am not too sure I believe it. And, I agree with you, Kate, that the whole use and dispose consciousness is so impoverished and limited.
John
and they have known this for some time. Regardless of whether that's true or not, my immediate intuitive sense about the announcement was making a way to distract people from the real dire financial situation, the HUGE US debt and the continued weakening of the US dollar. I doubt this has anything at all to do with 9-11 Truthers. Most likely they don't even come up on their radar anymore, given the kind of real trouble we are in in the US.
This can no longer be solved or postponed by the Chinese buying our debt in the form of US Treasury Bonds. Something will have to give now. A devaluing of the US Dollar or lowered bond rating or both...
Most people have absolutely no idea how dire the US debt and dollar situation truly is... may very well be time to store up some supplies while the dollar still has some purchasing power...
Yes, how convenient. No body; just a story. Osama's remains dumped, Twin Towers remains shipped abroad.
No remains of either to be examined and verify what happened and didn't happen. Was it evenOsama who was killed? There's absolutely no proof that he was even killed or that he lives on somewhere. Was anyone actually killed? Was he already dead, as some believe?
Before I hear the news today I saw a guy in a pickup truck with a big American flag on a 2 X 4, flying in the wind. I remembered seeing another guy in a pickup truck with an even bigger American flag flying on the day after 911. I bet there were thousands of pickup trucks with flags all over the country. Some people will gobble up any crap the government dumps on them.
I just have questions. Why is this death (real or bogus) happening now? Election time? Just questions.
Is it true that OBL was on the FBI most wanted list but 9/11 wasn't one of the crimes listed for him and when asked the FBI director said that OBL was not a suspect?
I see this as a way for all to save face in the face of Al Queda becoming an unmanageable enterprise. It is my intuition that there will be more "assininations" to "kill" Al Queda. Al Queda is really an idea... so to save face the PTB are "killing" thier terror network to end the game that they can no longer win.
The whole thing is a photoshopped ruse.
It is also a way to engage the territorial lizard brain of the all sheoples. It reminds me of Roman Tribute parades in which the prisoner kings were paraded up and down the streets of Rome before they were put to a horrific death. No king... just find someone to fill in.
All of this reads like Dog and Pony/Bread and Circus showmanship.
It is very scripted as well.
I bless the poor man and woman who they murdered for thier ruse. I bless all the Earth and every Human being with Love.
Fairy
More than likely Osama had been dead since '03. He had massive kidney problems and most likely died from Kidney failure around that time. He body was carried by his followers to a remote area and buried.
As with the twin towers demolition, all evidence has been removed.
As John Naisbit wrote in Megatrends 2000, we ought to be much more concerned about what isn't in the news.
Hi, Kate.
I had that same grief that you mentioned. My first thought was that gruesome image of Saddam Hussein swinging from the gallows. It turns my stomach to think of it. It turns my stomach to think of all the regular US citizens who got all wildly excited to see this image over and over again on the TV. I suspect both of these men were not model citizens... or even very nice to be around, but if we are purported to be this "nation of laws", why is it ok for us to sneak into anywhere and kill people? I've always had a strong feeling that the death penalty is a way of telling the world that the state is no better than the sociopath that got put to death. The same holds for this case.
This still holds true whether he was killed last night or not. The reaction from the crowd, and the government itself loudly states that we are big on revenge. I guess I just don't resonate with that any longer. Very sad.
lots of love,
kathy
Thanks to you all for your comments which really resonate with mine. There is strength in support. Since my sadness seemed unusually intense I have been meditating on why. Several things have come to mind...
... in the past, whenever some major event like this happened, it usually means some of our liberties or sovereignty is compromised is some way. What will it be this time? Some politician said, "Let no tragedy go unwasted" or something like that.
... possible retribution in the worst possible way keeps coming up. More than likely there will be blow back from our action. May this not be the excuse for our own to make it possible for regime change like it has done in the past.
... reread Hathors Transition States of Consciousness which is exactly what I needed to read. Thanks to whomever submitted that. "stay curious and expect a miracle".
NAMASTE
Withdrawn
When I heard the news...my first thought was.."What an insult to my intelligence"....What does it solve? World Hunger?....Our financial crisis?..Forecolsures of our families ..trying to live....NOTHING....It is part of the NWO scheme of things.....they need something...If anyone does not understand what I am talking about......"THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM...LOVE AND LIGHT.....
Hi Kate, I felt the same too. It really saddened me to see all these people running through the street celebrating someones death, regardless of who it is (and if it is even real, which I highly highly doubt!). It made me think of all the videos the US shows of one of our troops being drug through the streets and how angry it makes those here in the US feel and now here we are celebrating the death of someone else. It's just sad. I saw two quotes from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. yesterday that summed up how I felt. Thought I would share them here too:
God has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America. We cant save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We cant save the soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take up the ammunition of love.
Another Psy-Ops -- Bin Laden Death
It has only been two days since the "official" announcement. Obama's approval rating is now soaring. Obama spends millions keeping his birth documents secret, then suddenly releases his certificate of live birth? Now he successfully whacks Osama because one of his operatives, after 10 years, suddenly decides to make a phone call??
Forgive me if I declare this entire thing reeks.
Lets not forget the beautiful Benazir Bhutto who predicted her own assassination at the hands of the shadow elite government - after declaring powerfully that Osama bin Laden was "murdered".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg
Also, consider the following testimony:
When Osama Bin Ladin
Was 'Tim Osman'
Michael Riconosciuto & Ted Gunderson's 1986 Meeting with
'Tim Osman' (Osama bin Laden)
By J. Orlin Grabbe
The Laissez Faire City Times
Nov. 8, 2001
The two men headed to the Hilton Hotel in Sherman Oaks, California in the late Spring of 1986 were on their way to meet representatives of the mujahadeen, the Afghan fighters resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
One of the two, Ted Gunderson, had had a distinguished career in the FBI, serving as some sort of supervisor over Special Agents in the early 60s, as head of the Dallas field office from 1973-75, and as head of the Los Angeles field office from 1977-1979. He retired to become an investigator for, among others, well-known attorney F. Lee Bailey. And all along the way, Gunderson, whether or not actually a CIA contract agent, had been around to provide services to various CIA and National Security Council operations, as he was doing now.
In more recent years Gunderson was to become controversial for his investigations into child prostitution rings, after he became convinced of the innocence of an Army medical doctor named Jeffrey McDonald, who had been convicted of the murder of his wife and three young children in the 1970s. This has led to various attempts by the patrons and operators of the child prostitution industry to smear Gunderson's reputation.
Michael Riconosciuto was there to discuss assisting the mujahadeen with MANPADs,-Man Portable Air Defense Systems. Stinger missiles were one possibility. If the U.S. would permit their export, Riconosciuto could modify the Stinger's electronics, so the guided missile would still be effective against Soviet aircraft, but would not be a threattto U.S. or NATO forces.
But Riconosciuto had another idea. Through his connections with the Chinese industrial and military group, Norinco (http://www.norinco.com.cn/), he could obtain the basic components for the unassembled Chinese 107 MM rocket system. These could be reconfigured into a man-portable, shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft guided missile sytem, and produced in Pakistan at a facility called the Pakistan Ordinance Works. The mujahadeen would then have a lethal weapon against Soviet helicopter, observation, and transport aircraft.
Riconosciuto was more than just an expert on missile electronics; he was also an expert on electronic computers and associated subjects such as cryptology (see my " Michael Riconosciuto on Encryption" < <http://orlingrabbe.com/ricono.htm>)
Riconosciuto was a prodigy who had grown up in the spook community. The Riconosciuto family had once run Hercules, California, as a company town. In the early days (1861) a company called California Powder Works had been established in Santa Cruz, CA. It later purchased land on San Pablo Bay, and in 1881 started producing dynamite, locating buildings in gullies and ravines for safety purposes. A particularly potent type of black powder was named "Hercules Powder", which gave the name to the town of Hercules, formally incorporated in 1900. In World War I, Hercules became the largest producer of TNT in the U.S. Hercules, however, had gotten out of the explosives business by 1940 when an anhydrous ammonia plant was constructed. In 1959 Hercules began a new manufacturing facility to produce methanol, formaldehyde, and urea formaldehyde. In 1966 the plant was sold to Valley Nitrogen Producers. Labor problems led to a plant closure in 1977. In 1979 the plant and site was purchased by a group of investors calling themselves Hercules Properties, Ltd.
However, Michael and his father Marshall Riconosciuto, a friend of Richard Nixon, continued to run the Hercules Research Corporation. In the early 1980s Michael also served as the Director of Research for a joint venture between the Wackenhut Corporation of Coral Gables, Florida, and the Cabazon Band of Indians in Indio, California (http://orlingrabbe.com/part12.htm).
Riconosciuto's talents were much in demand. He had created the a-neutronic bomb (or "Electro-Hydrodynamic Gaseous Fuel Device"), which sank the ground level of the Nevada test site by 30 feet when a prototype was tested. Samuel Cohen, the inventor of the neutron bomb, said of Riconosciuto: "I've spoken to Michael Riconosciuto (the inventor of the a-neutronic bomb) and he's an extraordinarily bright guy. I also have a hunch, which I can't prove, that they both (Riconosciuto and Lavos, his partner) indirectly work for the CIA."
Riconosciuto's bomb made suitcase nukes obsolete, because it achieved near-atomic explosive yields, but could be more easily minaturized. You could have a suitcase a-neutronic bomb, or a briefcase a-neutronic bomb, or simply a lady's purse a-neutronic bomb. Or just pull out your wallet for identification and... The Meridian Arms Corporation, as well as the Universities of California and Chicago owned a piece of the technology.
But there was more than explosives in the portfolios of the CIA agents who surrounded Riconosciuto like moths around a candle. Both Robert Booth Nichols, the shady head of Meridian Arms Corporation (with both CIA and organized crime conections), and Dr. John Phillip Nichols, the manager of the Cabazon reservation, were involved in bio-warfare work-the first in trying to sell bio-warfare products to the army through Wackenhut, the second in giving tribal permission for research to take place at Cabazon. According to Riconosciuto, the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) was in charge of the classified contracts for biological warfare research. Riconosciuto would later testify under oath that Stormont Laboratories ( http://www.stormont-labs.com/ ) was involved in the DARPA-Wackenhut-Cabazon project. Jonathan Littman, a reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle would relate: "Cabazons and Wackenhut appeared to be acting as middlemen between the Pentagon's DARPA and Stormont Laboratories, a small facility in Woodland near Sacramento."
The Race Weapon
Riconosciuto would make additional claims about Bio-Rad corporation (http://www.bio-rad.com ) medical supplier which had gradually taken over Hercules, California. They were also, Riconosciuto would say, covertly engaged in bio-warfare research - producing some of the deadliest toxins known to man. The focus of Bio-Rad's research was said to be bio-active elements that could be tailored to attack those with certain types of DNA. Weapons could thus be produced that were specifically designed to wipe out specific races or genetic classes of human beings. (Alternatively, particular DNA types could be immunized against a deadly biological agent; the agent could then be released, and everyone else would die.)
A couple of years later, Meridian International Logistics, the parent company of Meridian Arms, was to farm similar research out to the Japanese. This included (according to minutes of a corporate meeting dated Aug. 26, 1988) methods for "induction and activation of cytotoxic T-lymphocytes". Associated with Meridian's Robert Booth Nichols in a Middle Eastern operation called FIDCO, a company that ran arms into and heroin out of Lebanon's Beqaa (Bekaa) Valley, was Harold Okimoto, a high-ranking member of the Yakuza. Okimoto had long worked under Frank Carlucci (who served as Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA before becoming Chairman of The Carlyle Group ( http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/). Okimoto owned food concessions in casinos around the world - Las Vega, Reno, Macao, and the Middle East. (Free drinks and anthrax while you play blackjack, anyone?)
Meeting Riconosciuto and Gunderson at the hotel were two representatives of the mujahadeen, waiting to discuss their armament needs. One of the two was named "Ralph Olberg." The other one was called Tim Osman (or Ossman).
"Ralph Olberg" was an American businesman who was leading the procurement of American weapons and technology on behalf of the Afghan rebels. He worked through the Afghan desk at the U.S. State Department, as well as through Senator Hubert Humphrey's office. Olberg looked after the Afghanis through a curious front called MSH - Management Sciences for Health.
The other man, dressed in Docker's clothing, was not a native Afghan any more than Olberg was. He was a 28-year-old Saudi. Tim Osman (Ossman) has recently become better known as Osama Bin Ladin. "Tim Osman" was the name assigned to him by the CIA for his tour of the U.S. and U.S. military bases, in search of political support and armaments.
Gunderson and Riconosciuto were not on an altruistic mission. They had some conditions for their help. And they had some bad news to deliver. The mujahadeen needed to be willing to test new weapons in the field and to return a research report, complete with photos. The bad news was that some factions of the CIA didn't feel that Oldberg and Osman's group were the real representatives of the Afghans. Upon hearing this both Tim and Ralph were indignant. They wanted to mount a full-court press. Round up other members of their group and do a congressional and White House lobbying effort in Washington, D.C.
"Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name."
-The Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
Did the lobbying effort take place? I don't know. There is some evidence that Tim Osman and Ralph Oldberg visited the While House. There is certainty that Tim Osman toured some U.S. military bases, even receiving special demonstrations of the latest equipment. Why hasn't this been reported in the major media?
One week after giving an affidavit to Inslaw regarding the PROMIS software in 1991, Riconosciuto was arrested on trumped-up drug charges. The Assistant U.S. Attorney prosecuting the case attempted to cover up Riconosciuto's intelligence background by claiming to the jury he was "delusional." A TV station came and pointed a camera out at the desert at Cabazon and said, "Riconosciuto says he modified the PROMIS software here." Of course Riconosciuto didn't modify the software out between the cacti and yucca. Sand isn't good for computers. He did the modifications in offices in nearby Indio, California. The AUSA [assistant U.S. attorney] told reporters Riconosciuto had been diagnosed with a mental condition, the implication being "he's making all this stuff up".
Yes, there had been a mental evaluation of Riconosciuto. I have a copy of the report. The diagnosis? Here it is: NO MENTAL DISORDER. The Department of Justice consistently and maliciously lied to the jury, just as had been threatened by Justice Department official Peter Viednicks if Riconosciuto cooperated with the congressional investigation of PROMIS.
If the war against Osama Bin Ladin (Tim Osman) is not a total fraud, then what is Michael Riconosciuto doing in prison? Why doesn't he have an office next to Colin Powell so he can give realistic advice on Bin Ladin's thinking? And where is Ralph Olberg?
Thirty-four days before the East African embassy bombings of August 7, 1998, Riconosciuto notified the FBI in Miami that the bombings were going to take place. Two days prior to the bombings he requested of BOP (Bureau of Prisons) officials at the Federal Corrections Institution (FCI) in Coleman, FL., that he be allowed to call <http://www.iss.co.za/Pubs/Monographs/No44/ECOMOG.html> ECOMOG security headquarters to warn African officials. The BOP denied the request. Riconosciuto was mystified at being ignored by the relevant government authorities. I'm not mystified. I suspect the reason Riconosciuto was ignored was that the relevant parties, including especially the Miami FBI office, knew all along the bombings would take place. And they wanted them to happen.
The same is true with respect to the recent plane bombings of the WTC. It wasn't an intelligence "failure". The terrorist acts were deliberately allowed to happen. The actors may have been foreign. But the stage directors appear to have been all along here in the U.S. Cui bono?
Isn't it time to let Michael Riconosciuto out of prison, and wipe the slate clean of the trumped-up drug charges, and let him be a national security advisor - at least with respect to the government's pursuit of Osama Bin Ladin? Isn't it time to quit pretending Osama Bin Ladin came out of nowhere?
This is not an academic argument. Sources say three dozen MANPADs have been imported into Quebec, Canada, from Colombia (where they arrived from Eastern Europe). The missile shipments followed the "northern" drug route - from Colombia into Canada. The missiles involved are
http://www.rusarm.ru/products/ad/igla.htm Russian Strellas and Iglas. These will serve just fine to take down commercial airline flights. Just like TWA 800. Which group of terrorists has the missiles? Meanwhile, how many biological warfare agents are in the hands of organized crime? Maybe you should ask Riconosciuto about all this. Michael Riconosciuto is now incarcerated at the FCI Allenwood, PA. You know where to find him.
Official presidential announcement; the official line restated and augmented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s67Chu9BJ70&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP793EC75DDCF3AE5B
> TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden
>
> On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the
> spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of
> the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in
> Pakistan.
>
> Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks
> in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
> reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural
> psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and
> Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like
> the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,
> reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.
>
> It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such
> an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception
> was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States
> Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross
> irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and
> emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true
> root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.
>
> The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means
> nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death
> simply serves as a catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on
> revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a
> psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it
> citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to
> anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the
> quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.
>
> However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of
> rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more
> practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the
> importance of that problem with respect to priority.
>
> The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.
> It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of
> relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and
> communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September
> 11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during
> the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.
>
> As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically
> limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that
> allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this
> context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001
> become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has
> now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is
> spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that
> pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.
>
> Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
> automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
> structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine
> over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
> disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
> environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330
> 9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget
> allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the
> money spent on "anti-terrorism" operations.
>
> Such a list could go on and on with regard to the perversion of priority
> when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I
> hope many out there can recognize the severe imbalance we have at hand with
> respect to our values.
>
> So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude
> this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most
> brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of
> non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed,
> killing four little girls attending Sunday school.
>
> In a public address, Dr. King stated:
>
> "What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many
> people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So
> tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God
> has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.
> We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the
> soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical
> weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take
> up the ammunition of love."
>
> - Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -
>
>
> ~Peter Joseph
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
Previous Quote from Fairy:
I see this [sic the killing of Osama Bin Laden] as a way for all to save face in the face of Al Queda becoming an unmanageable enterprise. It is my intuition that there will be more "assininations" to "kill" Al Queda. Al Queda is really an idea... so to save face the PTB are "killing" thier terror network to end the game that they can no longer win.
This was on the CNN website yesterday...
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/bergen-time-to-move-on-from-war-on-...
Permalink
The killing of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden should be the cue for the United States to end its war on terror, CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen said Monday.
"Killing bin Laden is the end of the war on terror. We can just sort of announce that right now," Bergen said.
Bergen believes that the iconic nature of bin Laden's persona cannot be replaced. He says that Pakistan still is a hotbed for terrorism, and that small-scale attacks are possible.
But at some point, he says, the United States has to say the war on terror is over. Otherwise, he says, the country will fight it forever.
"It’s time to move on," Bergen said in an interview with CNN's Radio's Lisa Desjardins.
Without having to hunt down bin Laden, Bergen argues, the United States can focus on things like the rise of China and the revolutions in various Arab countries.
To hear the rest of the podcast go to podcast and click on the podcast idcon at the end of the article.
_________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/03/bin.laden.clinton/index.html
CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was quick to suggest that the death of Osama bin Laden offered a unique opportunity for a wider settlement in a region riven by warfare and insurgency.
"Our message to the Taliban remains the same," she said Monday. "You cannot wait us out, you cannot defeat us, but you can make the choice to abandon al Qaeda and participate in a peaceful political process."
That has been a long-cherished ambition of U.S. foreign policy -- to delink the "good" Taliban from the "bad" Taliban and al Qaeda as a way of bringing peace to Afghanistan. As Clinton put in a speech to the Asia Society in February, the Holy Grail was to "split the weakened Taliban off from al Qaeda and reconcile those who will renounce violence and accept the Afghan constitution."
Achieving that goal has become all the more urgent with the looming deadline to begin the withdrawal of U.S. and coalition forces from Afghanistan, and President Obama's goal to complete that withdrawal in 2014. Former British Foreign Secretary David Miliband has argued that the West had effectively announced the date of the end of the war; and that was an invitation to the insurgents to bide their time.
Now -- "post OBL" - the omens may be more encouraging. The secretary of state apparently thinks so.
Events across the Middle East, she said Monday, are changing the political landscape. Muslims are "rejecting extremist narratives and charting a path of peaceful progress based on universal rights and aspirations," she said.
A deathblow to al Qaeda?
And there is polling to suggest that the appeal of al Qaeda's message among Muslims around the world has sharply eroded, according to regular polling by the Pew Research Center. Even in Pakistan, only 18 percent had confidence in bin Laden in 2010, compared to 52 percent in 2005.
Jihadist online forums were full of hand-wringing in January and February that the uprisings in the Middle East had passed them by, while offering a variety of strategies for co-opting or taking advantage of the unrest.
Beyond this cultural shift, there are other reasons the Taliban/al Qaeda linkage may now be weaker.
Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, author of "The Taliban" and "Descent into Chaos" wrote in the Financial Times Monday that "the Taliban do not owe al Qaeda anything now that Osama bin Laden is dead."
No obvious replacement to succeed bin Laden
"Renouncing their links with al Qaeda and negotiating as Afghans rather than as members of an international jihad has just become much easier for the Taliban," he added.
The Afghan Taliban, a home-grown movement whose principal goal is to expel foreigners, has never had that much in common philosophically with the Arab jihadists bent on using Afghanistan as the starting point in building a worldwide Caliphate. They have no record of terrorist acts beyond Afghanistan's borders. To many observers, it was a marriage of convenience.
There may also be more prosaic reasons prodding the Taliban to distance themselves from the al Qaeda leadership. If the U.S. Navy Seals did indeed come across what CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen described as a "boatload" of evidence during the raid in Abbottabad, some of it may (just may) help in tracking down members of the Quetta leadership of the Taliban.
However, analysts say it's by no means certain that the Taliban will perceive this watershed in the way that Clinton would wish.
The day before the operation that killed bin Laden, they declared the beginning of their spring offensive. They even made a point of warning that members of the Afghan Peace Council, established with great fanfare last year by President Hamid Karzai, would be targets. And they reiterated their central demand: "The war in our country will not come to an end unless and until the foreign invading forces pull out of Afghanistan."
How U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden
The Taliban have been weakened in critical areas in the south of Afghanistan, losing strongholds in Kandahar and Helmand provinces and seeing scores of rank-and-file fighters give up the cause. But the fight in the east is as hard as ever -- and non-governmental organizations in Kabul have also spoken of a growing Taliban presence in the north. U.S. commanders acknowledge that gains made so far have been fragile -- and are reversible. A Pentagon report published last week said that expanding the Afghan government's influence and control outside Kabul had not kept pace with recent security gains.
So there are few signs that the Taliban -- even if they are tired of fighting -- can yet be strong-armed into suing for peace.
In a report for the New America Foundation last year, Anand Gopal argued that the Taliban have been able to exploit the ineptitude of the government in Kabul.
"They were able to take advantage of growing disillusionment in the countryside," he wrote. "In particular, the dominance of one particular set of tribes caused members of other, marginalized tribes to look to the insurgency as a source of protection and access to resources."
The late Richard Holbrooke, who was the U.S. special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, acknowledged that victory on the battlefield was not on the horizon, telling CNN's Fareed Zakaria last October that "some kind of political element to this is essential, and we are looking at every aspect of this."
Holbrooke also made the point that the Taliban did not have a single address, a principal interlocutor like Slobodan Milosevic or the Palestinian Authority. "There is a widely dispersed group of people that we roughly call the enemy," he said.
Referring to the diffuse nature of the Taliban, Miliband argues the West needs to reappraise its goals in Afghanistan. He described Afghanistan as "a country of 40,000 villages and valleys," where a political settlement needs to be "internal with all the tribes and regional with the neighbors." That means a political role for the Taliban.
"We have to be absolutely clear, I think, that we do see a place for conservative Pashtun in the political settlement, helping govern the south and east of the country," Miliband told the Council on Foreign Relations recently.
Some of the previous contacts between the Taliban leadership and the government in Kabul have been managed by Saudi Arabia. In September 2008, an eleven-member Taliban delegation went to Mecca for talks mediated by King Abdullah. CNN's Nic Robertson reported at the time that the delegation was keen to stress that Mullah Omar, the Taliban's spiritual leader, was no longer allied to al Qaeda.
But vigorous Saudi involvement might be problematic now given the Kingdom's focus on its "near abroad:" the chaos in Yemen and conflict in Bahrain, where Saudi troops are now stationed. Add to that the deterioration in the Kingdom's relations with Washington over the "Arab spring" and what the Saudis regard as a reckless abandonment by the Obama administration of long-time allies like former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
Another complicating factor: Saudi Arabia is also looking to improve its relationship with Pakistan as a regional counterweight to Iranian expansionism, and Pakistan (which supported the Taliban when it ruled Afghanistan) very much wants a place at the table in any negotiation on Afghanistan's future.
In the "plus" column, the initiative by Turkey -- an increasingly assertive regional player -- to allow the Taliban to open an office there, to help accelerate the peace process. But for now it's just an initiative, not a reality.
So while bin Laden's demise brings opportunities, there are also great obstacles in making it the first downpayment of a peace dividend. Clinton acknowledged as much when she said Monday: "Which way it breaks is not clear yet," she said. "Managing these reactions will be part of our challenge."
they're churning national pride in the face of what's about to go down economically. it's a distraction. it also serves the present administration's bid for 2012. it has many benefits politically, but does "we the people" absolutely no good at all, and shows how pitifully easy the american people are distracted by BS.
so just to digress a bit about 9-11. Larry Silverstein organized approx. 24 insurance companies to cover the 7 WTC buildings, including "terrorist attacks", for billions of dollars just 7 weeks prior to September 11, 2001. Developers had requested demolition permits twice prior to all of this, but the port authority denied demolition permits due to all the asbestos fire proofing. asbestos abatement would have been far too expensive. Bush's brother Marvin in charge of security for the airport (the alleged terrorists flew from) and the WTC complex.
Big money and geopolitical concerns get together and create a perfect "Pearl Harbor" solution to everyone's problems with a false flag event, an option that has been used many many times in the past, and will be used again whenever it suits those in power, and they feel they can get away with it.
And now, with the alleged death of OBL, they continue to extract the fruits of their labor by shoring up the memorializing of that false flag event...
or maybe I'm just paranoid with a runaway imagination.... NOT!!!!
is right, Chris.
Sometimes, my greatest challenge with the powers that have been is to contain my outrage, let it stretch me, and regrd them with compassion. They have certainly provided me with excellent catalysts for crystalizing my commitment to service to others! Bless their empathically challenged, shriveled hearts!
from PrisonPlanet.com
Top US Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.
Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.
Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.
Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.
The character of Jack Ryan, who appears in many Tom Clancy novels and was also played by Harrison Ford in the popular 1992 movie Patriot Games, is also based on Steve Pieczenik.
Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.
Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.
Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer.
“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.
“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.
“Did the intelligence community or the CIA doctor up this situation, the answer is yes, categorically yes,” said Pieczenik, referring to Sunday’s claim that Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan, adding, “This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen and they look as if they’re intense, that’s nonsense,” referring to the images released by the White House which claim to show Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton watching the operation to kill Bin Laden live on a television screen.
“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,” asked Pieczenik.
“Osama Bin Laden was totally dead, so there’s no way they could have attacked or confronted or killed Osama Bin laden,” said Pieczenik, joking that the only way it could have happened was if special forces had attacked a mortuary.
(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)
Pieczenik said that the decision to launch the hoax now was made because Obama had reached a low with plummeting approval ratings and the fact that the birther issue was blowing up in his face.
“He had to prove that he was more than American….he had to be aggressive,” said Pieczenik, adding that the farce was also a way of isolating Pakistan as a retaliation for intense opposition to the Predator drone program, which has killed hundreds of Pakistanis.
“This is orchestrated, I mean when you have people sitting around and watching a sitcom, basically the operations center of the White House, and you have a president coming out almost zombie-like telling you they just killed Osama Bin Laden who was already dead nine years ago,” said Pieczenik, calling the episode, “the greatest falsehood I’ve ever heard, I mean it was absurd.”
Dismissing the government’s account of the assassination of Bin Laden as a “sick joke” on the American people, Pieczenik said, “They are so desperate to make Obama viable, to negate the fact that he may not have been born here, any questions about his background, any irregularities about his background, to make him look assertive….to re-elect this president so the American public can be duped once again.”
Pieczenik’s assertion that Bin Laden died almost ten years ago is echoed by numerous intelligence professionals as well as heads of state across the world.
Bin Laden, “Was used in the same way that 9/11 was used to mobilize the emotions and feelings of the American people in order to go to a war that had to be justified through a narrative that Bush junior created and Cheney created about the world of terrorism,” stated Pieczenik.
During his interview with the Alex Jones Show yesterday, Pieczenik also asserted he was directly told by a prominent general that 9/11 was a stand down and a false flag operation, and that he is prepared to go to a grand jury to reveal the general’s name.
“They ran the attacks,” said Pieczenik, naming Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Elliott Abrams, and Condoleezza Rice amongst others as having been directly involved.
“It was called a stand down, a false flag operation in order to mobilize the American public under false pretenses….it was told to me even by the general on the staff of Wolfowitz – I will go in front of a federal committee and swear on perjury who the name was of the individual so that we can break it open,” said Pieczenik, adding that he was “furious” and “knew it had happened”.
“I taught stand down and false flag operations at the national war college, I’ve taught it with all my operatives so I knew exactly what was done to the American public,” he added.
Pieczenik re-iterated that he was perfectly willing to reveal the name of the general who told him 9/11 was an inside job in a federal court, “so that we can unravel this thing legally, not with the stupid 9/11 Commission that was absurd.”
Pieczenik explained that he was not a liberal, a conservative or a tea party member, merely an American who is deeply concerned about the direction in which his country is heading.
Watch the full interview with Dr. Pieczenik below.
*********************
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.
I have had these same odd feelings of sadness. Make no mistake--I believe Osama deserved his fate and justice was done. Even in the end, reports are that he used a woman as a shield--despicable and cowardly. But I take no satisfaction in any violent death, not even his. I am guessing I feel this way because, like all of you, I see what a sham this whole 10-year production has been and whom/what it has served--the greedy war industries, the ambitious politicians, the oil companies, the Bush family vendetta for Sadaam, and the unconscious people who are caught up in hate and territoriality. It was a just death (if indeed it really happened), but it brings no satisfaction, only sadness over the sickness of our world.
Chuck
“I taught stand down and false flag operations at the national war college, I’ve taught it with all my operatives so I knew exactly what was done to the American public,”
that quote says so much about the "business as usual" so much of the public is so pathetically oblivious to...
...is afoot! All of this starts to fall in place from an awakened point of view. The problem remains that, whenever I/we try to use evidence like this to convince others to awaken, their eyes glaze over and you can tell that they think you are crazy. How do we combat this unwillingness to see the truth? This is our challenge and tme grows short. What must we do? It bothers me daly even though I understand that each persons' path is his own and am assured that the dark side will loose. Too many seeming contradictions. In the end, it all comes down to faith. Why is our view any different than the organized religion view in tha respect? In short; is it all just a game and those that learn how to play get saved somehoe and the rest just start over with different rules? How do we refuse to play?
Confused but not afraid.......
Kevin
I was blasted with "Your Credibility here is in jeporady!" This was then the most popular message in the thread I had posted. All kinds came out of the woodwork to let me know they thought I was a "Conspiracy Theorist." And a "nut job." and all that I had shown should be taken with a "grain of salt."
((SIGH))
They are all in the game that has changed little from Roman Times. I have decided to no longer speak freely on such topics to others. It serves to only polarize them to their views and in the end it will be harder for them to accept the truth when it does surface... perhaps they will uncover the truth in their next reincarnation if there is anything left on Earth at the time. Who Knows?!!
I bless you all with Love. I have been feeling that my role of wayshower has come to a close. Now What? I will have to get back to you on that one.
Fairy
There is a lot to be said for just being an observer in this phase of the "game." When we try to convince others of "our view" we are playing the polarity game. Better to let them figure it out for themselves when they are ready for the information. Those who truly ARE ready for the information will come to you for it. In the meantime - just observe and try not to participate in the polarity of it all (this is not easy - and can take all of your energy).
I think we take the role of "wayshowers" too seriously. I am personally very conservative in what I share. And when asked a question specifically for information - I provide a warning in the form of a question myself. "Just how far down the rabbit hole would you like to go?" What generally happens, is that they say they want to go - but in the end they find their objective view of reality seriously challenged - which leaves them uncomfortable. A subjective view is so much more expansive!
And so I SIGH with Fairy. Observe the game in action - but avoid actually PLAYING it!
It is hard to know what to do with this knowledge. I too, have backed way down from feeling morally obligated to "save" people by sharing what I know. I've come to accept that we all have our own paths to truth. One of the greatest challenges for me is allowing people I love to continue living blindly, but as many of you have echoed here, the response is usually one of disbelief and blaming the messenger.
I am torn, however, when so many sources advocate spreading the word... The Handbook for A New Paradigm http://www.nohoax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24&catid=1 , videos like Ring of Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-A54h_GQ8 etc. Logically, it seems like getting the word out to a critical mass is the solution to stopping our planned demise.... or is it?
I've resolved myself to quietly practicing spiritual solutions - prayer, affirmations, meditation, visualization, etc. I believe there is great power in doing such things collectively in groups -- whether online or in person.
Love, courage, faith, hope,
Noa
"I think we take the role of "wayshowers" too seriously"
Bingo!
DingDingDingDingDing.....
(apparent translation: we take the ego-inspired wayshower notion of ourselves far too seriously)
remaining quietly & lovingly attentive and available may be the lion's share of the task at hand
Yet another interesting note about the timing of this Bin Laden business:
http://act.demandprogress.org/act/obl_patriot/?referring_akid=590.341752...
By the way, Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik will be on Coast to Coast Tuesday, May 10, discussing how psy-ops are being used against the American people on several fronts.
Published on Saturday, May 7, 2011 by Guernica Magazine
My Reaction to Osama bin Laden’s Death
We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.
by Noam Chomsky
It’s increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition—except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress “suspects.” In April 2002, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, informed the press that after the most intensive investigation in history, the FBI could say no more than that it “believed” that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn’t know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence—which, as we soon learned, Washington didn’t have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that “we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”
Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of bin Laden’s “confession,” but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.
There is also much media discussion of Washington’s anger that Pakistan didn’t turn over bin Laden, though surely elements of the military and security forces were aware of his presence in Abbottabad. Less is said about Pakistani anger that the U.S. invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.
We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.
There’s more to say about [Cuban airline bomber Orlando] Bosch, who just died peacefully in Florida, including reference to the “Bush doctrine” that societies that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves and should be treated accordingly. No one seemed to notice that Bush was calling for invasion and destruction of the U.S. and murder of its criminal president.
Same with the name, Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound, throughout western society, that no one can perceive that they are glorifying bin Laden by identifying him with courageous resistance against genocidal invaders. It’s like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk… It’s as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes “Jew” and “Gypsy.”
There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.
© 2011 Noam Chomsky
Noam Chomsky is Institute Professor (retired) at MIT. He is the author of many books and articles on international affairs and social-political issues, and a long-time participant in activist movements. His most recent books include: Failed States, What We Say Goes (with David Barsamian), Hegemony or Survival, and the Essential Chomsky.
Published on Saturday, May 7, 2011 by Salon
U.S. Tries to Assassinate US Citizen Anwar al-Awlaki
by Glenn Greenwald
That Barack Obama has continued the essence of the Bush/Cheney Terrorism architecture was once a provocative proposition but is now so self-evident that few dispute it (watch here as arch-neoconservative David Frum -- Richard Perle's co-author for the supreme 2004 neocon treatise -- waxes admiringly about Obama's Terrorism and foreign policies in the Muslim world and specifically its "continuity" with Bush/Cheney). But one policy where Obama has gone further than Bush/Cheney in terms of unfettered executive authority and radical war powers is the attempt to target American citizens for assassination without a whiff of due process. As The New York Times put it last April:
It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president. . . .
That Obama was compiling a hit list of American citizens was first revealed in January of last year when The Washington Post's Dana Priest mentioned in passing at the end of a long article that at least four American citizens had been approved for assassinations; several months later, the Obama administration anonymously confirmed to both the NYTand the Post that American-born, U.S. citizen Anwar al-Awlaki was one of the Americans on the hit list.
Yesterday, riding a wave of adulation and military-reverence, the Obama administration tried to end the life of this American citizen -- never charged with, let alone convicted of, any crime -- with a drone strike in Yemen, but missed and killed two other people instead:
A missile strike from an American military drone in a remote region of Yemen on Thursday was aimed at killing Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical American-born cleric believed to be hiding in the country, American officials said Friday.
The attack does not appear to have killed Mr. Awlaki, the officials said, but may have killed operatives of Al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen.
The other people killed "may have" been Al Qaeda operatives. Or they "may not have" been. Who cares? They're mere collateral damage on the glorious road to ending the life of this American citizen without due process (and pointing out that the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution expressly guarantees that "no person shall be deprived of life without due process of law" -- and provides no exception for war -- is the sort of tedious legalism that shouldn't interfere with the excitement of drone strikes).
Read the rest of the article at Salon...
© Copyright 2011 Salon
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy. His next book is titled "With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful."
Hi Jeff-
I really wish you hadn't posted Noam Chomsky here. He has been a 9/11 truth gatekeeper all along. This peice, criticle of the Obama administration for not following the law but not questioning the Obama story itself is typical of the kind of psyop stuff he puts out and he has done an excellent job of keeping the left wing asleep by skillfully mixing lies with criticisms. He's way too informed and intelligent to have not figured 9/11 out yet. I personally e-mailed him the 9/11 truth information at want-to-know.info myself years ago and I know he got it because he actually responded with an "I'll look into it". Since then he's given all kind of excuses about not telling the truth - his best one "It doesn't matter" Doesn't matter that 9/11 was committed by people inside our own government????!!!!
I think your reason for posting this probably was not to perpetuate the myth (so sorry to get all critical here) but to point out that we should be following the law, reguardless but I feel compelled to point out lies, especially when spoken by sneaky bastards like Noam Chomsky - he is so holier than thou!
Jez just found an excellent 9/11 research tool www.historycommons.org there's a search engine where you can look up any details about this Osama bin killed pack of lies.
Wendy
You know - I don't follow anything he says - I just got these two articles in an email - and what caught me was the point he is making about Obama being JUST AS CRAZY as the Bush cabal. Everything government does is nuts. So that was the reason for posting. No political reasons, LOL I don't vote for any of these guys.
Thanks for the heads up though! I'm clueless on him...
I was puzzled by your comment about Noam Chomsky, Wendy. He has a long history as a political dissonant and has challenged many governmental policies.
I went looking for his views on 9-11, and sure enough, he does not believe the Bush administration was behind it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM&feature=related . I find his views on that issue to be out of character from his usual political stance. (I also resisted believing the 9-11 conspiracies for the longest time.)
The interview he gave on today's Democracy Now broadcast is more indicative of Noam's typical posture:
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/11/noam_chomsky_the_us_and_its
Yes, he's very critical of government on everything but 9/11 and I wouldn't be surprised if he also supports the Federal Reserve. He's a resident on Massachusetts (former MIT prof.) so the people I know from Boston 9/11 Truth have been asking questions and putting 9/11 in his face for years to no avail. I'm at work so I can't comment on the video's you posted but that's what good gatekeepers do - they mix mostly truths with lies only on the real important stuff so they keep up their credability while still supporting the mainstream lies.
Wendy
I got to talk to Noam via email a few years back. I think he is a perfect example of the genius of this current mind control people control social system. The genius of this kind of peer pressure for academics like Noam Chomsky is, well, he really is the poster child for it since he wrote the book called Manufactured Consent.
From a judgmental perspective he is utterly without excuse because his work shows he is very capable of understanding the truth of 9-11. How could anyone watch those 3 buildings fall at near freefall speed straight down into their footprints and not understand that they were watching a very typical & standard (well, maybe not so standard) structurally engineered controlled demolition?
I have to conclude that Chomsky is simply and carefully choosing his battles for what he in his present capacity is attempting to accomplish in life, that he would surely be commiting academic suicide to admit that he really does know exactly what went down the morning of September 11, 2001.
What really bothers me even more is the world community of architects & engineers who should and do know better, but refuse to admit it (like Chomsky) because they are settled in on their blue pill world and world view that keeps their professional heads in the warm sands of indifference. Structural engineers know all too well that it takes as much carefully planned engineering to drop steel structures in neat piles in their footprints as it does to design and construct them...
All the engineers I have ever worked with and the one's my husband works with adhere to very conventional thinking, like to pass the buck when something goes wrong, and are completely unable to think outside the box... ever wonder why every building looks the same?
I have little faith in the ability of the engineer to think for themselves. They are all part of an empiracle science club along with their pocket protectors and their egotistical attitudes. It is a boys club by the way.
It will not be the scientists or the engineers that tell the truth... it will be concerned citizens with engineering background that could not make it in the engineering environment of conformity.
Fairy
Amen to that....
and that we are presently doing...
its only a matter of time now...
Chris, I think there's more going on with Noam than choosing battles- he's long past retirement and coming on board with 9/11 truth would just be a great boon to a new speaking carreer for him. I'm not sure what it's all about other than possibly an undying loyalty to MIT, which probably gets millions in grants indirectly through the war on terror.
Fairy, you hit it on the nose, I work with these guys too, many are not necessarily egotistical (although I've met a few who fall into that category) but they are the "A" students that have been very well trained to follow, not lead or think for themselves. God bless Richard Gage and the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth for standing apart from the vast majority of them.
Wendy