Do we create our own reality?

Yes :D <3 infinnite choice of how we can engage the internal perspectives with the external world certainly is a game changer

You can miss out on the magic that surrounds you and is you by not being present, Your mind can amplify or nullify, both are useful abilities if used in the right contexts in harmony with yourself, the choice is whether you choose to recognize the effect you are having on yourself and then lead, correct if needed!!! Do you choose to retain presence to empower your recognition of choice and your will to choose as you will it??? if yes then you indeed are a powerful co-creator of your every moment with the infinite, to dance with the cosmos as you see fit to  :D

    We all need to focus on growing this illusion towards what we want as a whole and quit looking to others to solve the problem for us. I create a problem free reality. Follow our minds and intuition, is what I mean. Knowing how to create your own reality , can benefit you tremendously .  Hints The Secret !!!!!!

                Beautiful Thomas/Unite  !

                       I am a perfect example !!!

      I love you all , Eric

 I disagree Fred about the first statement you made "It is not that our mind literally creates our physical reality. Rather..." My own internal 'get' is that is exactly what is happening. Sometimes I've perceived that we form a universe exactly to what we need. I admit it could be an ego construct made from the available materials but my internal and external experiences seem to back up my belief. For example, when I took the Transformation course I saw my circumstances change. Whenever I had a breakthrough toward a more authentic me or dropped some facade or confronted some fear, I not only had deeper connections with other people but suddenly, copius synchronicities would flow (sometimes even multiple, interacting synchronicities-really cool but crazy!), or badly needed resources fell in my lap, or a friend would appear from nowhere. A techtonic shift would stir up the whole world in face-slapping detail. News programs would feature story after story of things I was the most deeply interested in, the phone would ring and it would be a beloved sister, brother or friend I most wanted to speak to, broken things would suddenly start working again. It seemed like the whole world was suddenly on my side.

um,,,I am having issues with the editor functions these days Fred. I paste and the editor shows nothing in the area I'm typing and jumps my screen to the top of the page, spell check doesn't work anymore either. You can see the part I was trying to paste ultimately showed up in the post...

I know I know! Here's the thing. My 'solution' to this quandry is to say "It doesn't make sense BUT both things are true". My alternate theory is to say "Well Fred, you don't exist outside of my creating you." \ that scares the heck out of me and makes me very sad but I feel that to be truly honest about it, I may in fact BE GOD and be alone. I feel disappointed in myself when I think that too and hear internal criticisms chattering at me. I guess I just have always wanted to be bone honest so that leaves me with that I just don't know-which I try to honor by experimenting with seeing life from these different perspectives-to try and get a handle on things. You might be God and me some construct to keep you company. That's sad too. I could cry. Hmmm, I think this all started years ago when I heard Werner Erhard say " You are God in your own Universe".

I don't think it's really possible for us to "think" about this and get very far, because in doing that we're using only the left brain concept-creating function.  Still, here are some thoughts that might point beyond thinking.  (Maybe):

What is this "I" that we're talking about here, that we say perceives or even creates reality (the universe)?  If the "I" we're talking about is all of the thoughts, images, emotions, memories, the physical attributres, etc. that make up the individuals "Brian" or "Fred" or "Bob" or whoever, then those identities and all that make them up are perceived or "held in consciousness" by something beyond those identities and all that make them up.

So that something does perceive them and generates -- or somehow lies beyond -- all those ideas and images and thoughts as well.  So that One (using a capital to denote something beyond anything and everything personal) -- can we call it Consciousness or Awareness? -- can't be Brian's or Fred's or Bob's or anyone's exclusively; it's our fundamental, primordial experience, beyond all the contents (thoughts, perceptions, ideas, experiences, etc.) of our lives and even of the universe itself, which exists for us as a perceived reality.  But a "Self" on that level (beyond which there is no other "level"), not being personal or even individual, must be that which manifests as each of us and all of creation. We've heard and used terms like Universal Consciousness or Awareness, Big Space, Tao, and many others.

If this is true, then the basic experience of "reality" or the universe is laid out on an impersonal level (and so "we" may well literally create it) as an experience common to all of us.  But the genetics, conditioning, and experiences of our individual "selves" filter and color the basic experience, so we can accurately say that we experience and live in different "worlds" that we "create" in a relative sense.

But this is different from solipsism, which states (if I remember my college Philosphy 101 course correctly) that an individual literally creates his/her own reality and that nothing and no one has any reality beyond that mental/perceptual creation.  (I think this is what you were asking Brian about in your post above, Fred.)  The basis of this philosphy is the "given" that we can't know anything beyond our own personal experience.  The mystics of all of history would categorically disagree that this is a "given".

But in the end I come down to where you end up, Brian: "I just don't know."  Honestly, I find a great deal of space (even Big Space) and peace in that admission.

 You're right Bob-how can we rely on thinking? Hey-you said "(and so "we" may well literally create it) as an experience common to all of us.  But the genetics, conditioning, and experiences of our individual "selves" filter and color the basic experience". I hold this belief that our physical history, genetics, science-all the proof of our physical reality is really just a clever coverup. A benign one but it allows for a curtain to be drawn between us and the creator and our true nature which is infinite, has nothing to do with physical worlds and is completely OK.

I like and usually adhere to a belief we co-create this experience because it makes me feel more peaceful and connected. It may not be wise, but I've pretty much concluded I have to figure everything out by myself (or maybe I mean question it). I think it's more likely you can learn something novel this way. So many things I was taught have turned out to be RUBBISH! Part of my curiousity, I also wonder if visiting ET races have advanced so far by overturning everything we have not except maybe love and sacredness. After hearing David Adair's account of touching (and climbing around on) a captured alien fusion engine at Area 51, I started to wonder about what ET's have had to learn to advance so far. A symbiotic living engine? I think we/me might have to let go some cherished stuff.
 We all said "I don't know". Sometimes I can be content with that and go off whistling-grateful that life has mysteries to be plumbed. Sometimes I can't.  I'm in one of those periods where I'm not balanced and not content with things. I hope it won't be long before I feel more at peace with it like you do Bob.

all of those "perceptions" are correct.  we are holonomic beings living in a holographic universe.  maybe it's also this way...  since our higher/total/overselves exist in and outside of this dimension, this is sort of like a big video game with remote sensory characters.  the dominant running programs are "nature" and the "laws of the universe".  we cocreate other overlays on top of those which are more or less disharmonic or disfunctional because we aren't working WITH the system, for the most part.  the dominant paradigm of the planet as well as those belief systems we spend the most time with define our individual worlds.  anytime we interact with another being with "higher" intelligence, there is the possibility of alteration.  meeting somewhere in the middle, we have an affect on one another, and in the game as most people play it the dominant ego wins and subdues the lesser with it's p.o.v....  anytime an "act of god" or some world-shattering or belief-shattering event occurs, there is room for growth outside of the former constraints.  if the electromagnetics of the planet are shifted or suspended and because they are directly related to our brains, the entire program may change because we lose our memories and only retain the basic fundamentals and what has been written in our dna.  the dna is the key.  inscribe those qualities you wish to retain into your very BEING and they will be with you.  our "minds" as defined by popular belief are as so many tabloids and periodicals...  unless you can get someone to laugh in a genuinely free way...  that can free up some energy.  the drama is gettin REAL old.  like age of pisces was last week's news old.

the whole goal is to BECOME the god of your existence, and a benevolent one at that.  so, if it makes you feel better to think of us all as your creations, it really makes no difference because we all have that potential.  as long as your ego doesn't need worshipped or acknowledged for its "greatness", you're on the right track.  7.2 billion of us playin that game.  what kind of king will you be?  as wise as solomon?  as courageous and daring as aragorn?

it mainly all comes down to how you perceive yourself anyway, and your realtionship to the world.  so, we are all either projections, reflections, or fragments of the big YOU, and how is your relationship to those fractals/pieces?  or the different aspects of your psyche?...  apples and oranges.  don't worry, be happy.  let us cocreate heaven on earth and commence the galactic party that "everybody" is waiting for.  i tip my hat to trey and matt of south park in thinking that van halen would headline that party in the holy land.  ;)

i had a vision at a daime ceremony (odd experience- a powerful hallucinatory drug with a strict belief system) of myself "plugged in" matrix-style to this egg/bubble.  my whole body was free to move and project into this creation but my spine was connected in back to the "outside".  inside the egg it was dark but with all the lights and phenomena of stars and planets that we know.  but outside the egg?  it was pure LIGHT with all of these hazy silhouttes of beings there to assist and provide whatever necessary for the experiment/experience.  talk about a feeling of being held and supported.  and "they"/"it" only assumed ANY type of form for my benefit, because the shapes weren't distinct as individuals and just sort of faded off in a huge ring/circle.  i did perceive some open smiles in the light though.  but no communication using words.

anytime there is a disruption of established parameters, there is more opportunity for development.  after the flood here in colorado, there was a tremendous potential to create something new.  free radicals, as it were.  but most will just try to go back to the safety of what they know (even though it might not really be safe) instead of trek off in some other adventurous direction.  i've moved around and had so much change and transition in my existence, that i don't subscibe to that theory.  i hate being stuck in my box and my neighbors all stuck in their boxes and nobody sharing existence with one another.  just trying to make it to the next day!  and do the same stupid shit over again!  good times, good times.

I so love when a conversation has me thinking of so many things I'd like to say that it becomes difficult to remember all of them.  The main thing that came to mind yesterday and today in Light of this inspiring line of thinking is that the same constant ever available "jitter" of "zero point energy" (that unexplainable energetic jitter that is detectible at zero degrees kelvin) plays the primary role as the cosmic matrix acted upon by knowledgable conscious intention.

So here we are at the threshold of harnessing this energy (should already be there worldwide with the findings of Tesla and a host of others), at the same time that we become more and more conscious of the possibilities of our well-focused conscious intention being directed toward this energetic matrix to produce something novel in the 3D hologram supported by this universal energy.

Another thing that comes to mind (much lately for some reason) is that belief systems are NOT IMO the key to successfully engaging this energetic matrix - that beliefs are actually a hinderance, something settled upon that becomes static psychic white noise that makes the ego comfortable, but does little to nothing for mounting a successful and fruitful result concerning this invisible omnipresent matrix of undefinably intense, pervasive, yet benign and purposefully cooperative energy.

My thinking is that the shortcomings of belief systems and personal pet beliefs must be abandoned, and personal experiential knowledge must be sought and gained by "US", individually and collectively (is there really any difference?  Don't know).  Once we are consciously and purposefully engaging this energetic "womb" beliefs become obsolete and fade into the backround to return to the nothings they always were.  Personal experiential knowledge is key IMHO.

Once there, who would practice the utter futility of preaching any kind of belief system when they so perfectly understood that each individual must come to that place of personal conscious experiential knowledge of a successful engaging of this amazing unexplicable energetic womb?

These are a few of the thoughts that came to mind while following this very very cool line of thinking.  Thanks to all who engaged this inspired and muse-worthy discussion...

you hit the proverbial nail on the head with that post, chris!  and there was a host of angels dancing on it as well, but they remained unharmed!  wuwt?  jk...  yes, it is the definitions and belief systems and labels which ultimately limit (in interest of steady growth) but sometimes hinder (when no longer serving growth) our progress.  and i believe (tentatively) that zero point energy and chaos are that unattributed potential.  the ordering of the universe locks up or commits (binds) some of that energy to form and conceptions.  "good" when establishing parameters for the agreed upon game board or playground, not so much when that is no longer agreed upon (for many reasons).  time to alter the rules!  throw out the book!  we know what's "right".

but, it is true that when you free up your idea of what is possible and your preconceived notions of the way you perceive it, there is so much more potential.  the illusion is that it is finite in some way.  not so.  you just need to bypass all the hullabaloo and connect to the source.  if your intention is in serving the best interests, well, the sky ISN'T the limit...

and i think the outcome of this situation we're in will far surpass anyone's ideas of what MAY happen.  it already has!  the backstage party will be off the hook, and everyone will be invited and a v.i.p. on the list.  the trick is maintaining composure (and not letting your face melt or slide off prematurely) as in the veritable eye of the hurricane.  serenity in cacophany.  alleviate fear of the "unknown" and don't panic.  i've heard it said that "god is pressure".  and maybe anxiety and/or nervous energy is there for a reason.  trying to push us outside our comfort zones and engage/interact/adventure.  free up the time/space and space/time!

thanks for the feedback, fred.  i would love to journey into the earth in some fashion.  i've heard lots of interesting things about it...  it was interesting reading the epilogue: "end game" final chapter of far journeys by robert monroe.  would highly recommend just that part if people don't have time for the rest.  available in pdf format if you google it!  anyway, the common theme i'm detecting from "non-human" sources is that our belief systems are in need of adjustment (and who knows where that could potentially take us), but that initially in being incarnated in human form we have to agree to accept the illusion and forget our divine heritage (although it nags at us constantly! :) as a basis for our shared experience...  accept the limitation.  and then learn to focus our energy and expand beyond those constraints while still in human form.  and that, yes, we are capable of so much more.  but we still have to adhere to the rules.  we can't just run around blowing people's minds and upsetting their worlds because we've grown impatient with their process.  we have all the "time" in the world!

i also wonder about the moon...

Nah Star Monkey...you said if someone sees all others as their creation then can they be a good king? I don't have the ego to imagine myself somehow in charge. Life has taught me many times that egotistical behaviour and beliefs are faulty and can hurt you badly, so I don't even bother constructing some self-serving universe. My thinking is too simplistic and unsupported by philosophy, psychology or evidence. If it's somehow true you are only a projection of my mind the overarching thing for me is just an emotion-sadness. It would be devastating to have it confirmed. I'd probably kill myself. When I was in high school I read all of Carlos Castenada's books and I became intensely lonely as a result. Don Juan was teaching him to be ever vigilant-that anyone could be a terrible danger to you. But I'm just telling you my feelings around this stuff. I have zero supporting or verifiiable evidence to support a one being conclusion...only a suspicion. Peace brother.

I feel i am not the creator of everything, but i am its dance partner and you are my dance partner and all of the dance is everthing... a dance requires somthing cosmic, creation from the interaction of individuation creating a whole new evolving thing 

   It was invigorating! I started to say to myself,,,and anyone who asked,,"I don't believe in anything,,I believe everything!" so,,,anything is possible,right? Of course,,I just get an awkward look if I say this to someone, but to me, it reinforces the idea. I think  that belief systems are just a more focused path to come to this realization, and of course,,feed our need to be able to put the world into some kind of order, you know, our need to be able to identify what is around us,or what we have created. I stumbled on a few stories over the years about monks who reached a level where they have to let go of all they have learned,,and,,,at that point they are offered a high ranking position in whatever sect they are involved in. Some take it,,and play along,,,helping others struggle through the material,,,and others choose to leave...Didn't Buddha say,,,after reaching a new realization,,"everything I have taught you is wrong!" This had to make a lot of "believers" a little nervous, and I rarely here it mentioned....

    Hey Brian,,I also read CC's books in high school,,and even wrote a couple of term papers on them(I went to this really cool alternative high school). I agree,,,some of his stuff was kind of scary, but I like some of the little things that were tucked in them. Rather than looking for the places or entities that he encountered, I like to use a couple of his methods on my own journey. Like,,,focusing on a shadow,,of anything,,,a bush, a rock, from a long distance away. I liken this to focusing both eyes into one eye of a meditation partner. I also liked his stories about walking in the desert, fingers curled, for long distances. I have used this one many times, and even taught my son this one when he did his first long hikes with me. It seems to retain this cycle of energy in your body,(closing the lao-kung points in the hands), and even induces a meditative state, making it easy to cover long distances ,,,while not disturbing anything in your surroundings. Ex.,,I have walked within a couple of feet of rattlesnakes, perched hawks, etc. while in this state without even rousing them. These things leave me in awe...

   I also really enjoyed this thread, but I had no words to add until reading Chris' post. None of the beliefs I have embraced along the way seem  to fit,,but they have all contributed,,,no doubt. A few days ago, I was at a Buddhist "town" of sorts here in China, where thousands of people a day come to pray during the holidays here,,,,praying for fertility, or a new job, or for a sick family member. Huge bonfires of incense are burning in muddy pits created by so many feet converging on this place at once. Two years ago, I prayed here,,,at  every spot,,,30-40 of them,,and made sure to pray for others, not myself. But this year,,I just stood amidst the chaos , freezing my ass off in the cold china drizzle,,,and wondered,,,Is this just like watching the people file into churches back in the states, trying to make themselves feel better by "showing up"? Probably, for some ,or even many,,,Still, it was a peaceful day, and much better than being in the middle of that many people in the subway! Maybe the ones standing outside the entrances selling bags of incense are the smart ones! L,,,,,T

Thanks for the interesting conversation folks!

Aren't you all kind of kidding yourselves about throwing out beleifs? It's really an impossible thing to do because as long as you are alive you must believe that you exist.

I think maybe a better way of stating it is that you are continually open to changing beliefs.

I like to think about what it would be like to be a cell in my body - maybe a lung celia, spending my time, creating my little world by doing what I can to keep the space around me free of debris that is continually getting blown in and around the world around me. And yet there are also overwhelming forces around me changing my world in ways that I have no control over.

What I've come to "believe" about beliefs (pun definitely intended) is from a left brain perspective that leaves the right brain free and clear to roam at will (some strong beliefs can actually hinder the right brain abstract freedom to roam and soar at will for fear of offending whatever or whoever).

Usually comes to me when I have been smoking pot (I get chatty cathy and right brainy with left brain support, LOL).  This latest one about beliefs is so simple for me - whatever is real does not require belief.  It's already real!  Most likely what's up is our need to rediscover what is already real.  This is where beliefs can be a hinderance, a distraction from the quest.  Dare I say, a shortcut to feeling like I know something just because I believe some religious or spiritual notion.

I truly think that most beliefs are catering to the ego as primary objective (of the ego) while being distracted from the truth of this primary objective by rationalization.  i.e. spinning my wheels and getting nowhere.  If you think about it, people don't peddle or preach what they know is really true.  For example, you don't see people making a religion out of the known existence of oxygen or water, and yet these two things we need to live in these bodies.  These truly known things are taken for granted.  So I think beliefs, especially professed and peddled belief systems, actually expose doubt.

We just don't go around touting the things we really know to be true, only the things we hope and wish to be true.  They reveal the romantic poetic inclination of the higher brain functioning mammal in us, while the reptile in us just goes about it's business navigating the physical world....

I'm inclined to "believe" that the art of appreciation is most likely a much more efficient path toward (re)discovery of Reality.  But Reality?  She don't need anyone's help being Real.  She's already there.

Beliefs are often just the mumblings that occur during the process of awakening, like the mumbling one hears from someone sleeping and dreaming about being awake...

   What I wouldn't do for a big fattie right now!

come to colorado, t ;)  if you meet the buddha on the road, kill the buddha.  it ain't the real buddha.  that one's inside you.  there's enough roles for everone to play.  the definition/label/belief thing i am mainly referring to is that opinions aren't always (or even usually) a "good" thing.  if i think something about something or someone, and my beliefs have me referring to certain thoughts or emotions related to that object, then that has the potential to limit growth on both of our parts.  also, if you "wish" to influence others or events it is a fine line between "good intention" and monkeying with things.  the whole free will trip.  respecting your own use of time and energy as well as others, even if it's not something you agree with.  if you keep more of an open mind and release emotional attachments, there is more potential for development and for the universe to fill in blanks that are kept open for us until we are ready.  you want a book that might cause some apprehension in the realm of just how small yet significant we all are?  the cosmic doctrine by dion fortune.  scaa-aary stuff.  and yes, fred, cosmic journeys was a great read too and available at scribd.com.  peace, y'all

Don't know why I still remember this conversation from one of my college courses many odd years ago...

A student in my class said that he didn't believe/have faith in anything.

The teacher countered with, "Do you walk gingerly across the floor?"  What he meant was that the student must believe in the floor's reliability in holding his weight without collapsing (as our classroom was on the 4th floor).  Otherwise, he'd be creeping along, testing the floor with each step... as all of us would without such belief.

simple things like the sensation-al concept of up or down, and how we relate to this in the natural world on a planet with gravity.  when in Reality there is no up or down - NSEW, just the concept based upon the illusory phenomenon.  The Noumenal World?  Much harder to detect, to quantify, to understand or relate to, and yet it is what is Real.  Example:  two people shake hands and assume they have touched each other in the physical world - they have not - that's impossible since atoms do not touch each other.  Just the senses telling a phenomenal story that says so little about what is really real...

When I think of how ill equipped our senses are, makes the inclination to form an opinion seem a bit silly...

puff, puff, pass.....

The noumenon /ˈnɒuːmɨnɒn/ is a posited object or event that is known (if at all) without the use of the senses.[1] The term is generally used in contrast with, or in relation to "phenomenon", which refers to anything that appears to, or is an object of, the senses. In Platonic philosophy, the noumenal realm was equated with the world of ideas known to the philosophical mind, in contrast to the phenomenal realm, which was equated with the world of sensory reality, known to the uneducated mind.[2] Much of modern philosophy has generally been skeptical of the possibility of knowledge independent of the senses, and Immanuel Kant gave this point of view its classical version, saying that the noumenal world may exist, but it is completely unknowable to humans. In Kantian philosophy the unknowable noumenon is often linked to the unknowable "thing-in-itself" (Ding an sich, which could also be rendered as "thing-as-such" or "thing per se"), although how to characterize the nature of the relationship is a question yet open to some controversy (gee, ya think? LOL).

Ayahuasca anyone? (in fond memory of Terence McKenna)

yeah, fred.  maybe i'd wrestle the buddha and then snuggle...  ;)

those silly greek words.  so rich and yet so confusing.  pneuma is another hidden clue to the above.  refers to the breath.  might be why so many ancient or "sacred" languages don't have vowels and why the written word is essentially "dead letter".  it takes the breath and actually reading it aloud and letting it resonate within and without...  and why jesus (the christ) was "the word".  he was embodying his beliefs on a cellular level.  no doubt.  no lies.  it's also why most parenting is faulty.  your words have to match your actions.  and class structure.  "do as i say but not as i do".

funny, but i've been having similar thoughts relating to direction and time.  reading some native american/indian stuff lately and their big reference to the directions all the time...  always sort of bothered me because OF COURSE there are more than four directions!  so where do you start/stop?  or maybe somebody who's worldview had the rug pulled out from under it had a hard time adapting/understanding concepts new to their thinking.  and superstition up the wazoo.  but if time and space are illusions?...

that means we're constantly MAKING IT UP ALL THE TIME.  by agreeing to your old way of perceiving the world every morning, that gives THE MAGIC that much less to...  well, whatever your level of interaction with it daily.

and, yes, dmt and other psychoactives may provide glimpses or temporary backstage passes into that noumenal world.  and maybe even if we can't perceive it constantly (our circuits would probably fry), perhaps the trick is to find out how to "mirror" or cooperate with it from this side without really seeing it.  faith?

"i'd wrestle the buddha and then snuggle" LOL! I thought Fred said 'wrestle'and reread it. Then you said it-odd. I love the Buddha because he was so brave. He stood fast and took all his mind could throw at him to knock him off his perch. In the movie "Little Buddha" I cry when Buddha sits softly smiling in meditation as immense ocean storm waves and fusillades of arrows are hurled at him. His peace is undefeatable. He's won. Really, I think of him as my Jesus or Christ for his deep determination to release us all from suffering (so they say). A bit on a pedestal? Yup.

Love the "floor Story" Noa. SO RIGHT ON!

You are all so beautiful. Love to everyone at the Gathering Spot

Liked this "We don't get what we want from the universe, we get what we expect"

When the Buddha is mentioned, I sometimes can't resist chiming in.

The quote that Fred refers to above is one from Zen: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."  That means no disrespect, and it doesn't refer to the historical Buddha, who we're not going to ever meet on the road anyhow because he's long gone.  It's just a metaphorical way of saying, "Don't take any name, image, word, or person that/who represents the Truth (Reality) as the Thing itself. 

Picture a monastery where many times a day monks were prostrating, chanting, and offering rice, flowers, and so forth to statues of the Buddha and other images.  So these monks ran the risk of getting caught up in devotional practices to the point of forgetting that none of this is Truth itself, which is perceptual/experiential only.  That's why, when a monk asked his master something like, "What is the Buddha?" he'd get a raised forefinger as an answer, or even a smack on the head.  At the same time, there's nothing wrong with devotional practices as long as they don't take the place of insight practices -- from an Insight perspective.

There's the related Zen admonition to spit on the Buddha.  As the story goes, a master was doing his devotional practices before an image of the Buddha, and one of his monks said "Why are you bowing to the Buddha?  I thought you were supposed to spit."  The master didn't refute what the monk had said; he just smiled and said, "You spit, I'll bow."

Personally, I'd love to have hung out with the Buddha or with Jesus.  If through some time travel we could, however, I think we'd find  that they had their very ordinary sides.  Would we even have recognized them for who they were?

The point anyway is, as has been said many times in the world of Buddhist teaching, "The Buddha is within yourself.  There is no other Buddha."  I guess that's the point of all this killing and spitting talk.

i believe we would know them because they were going against the grain in precarious times.  drew a lot of attention to themselves because of that difference.  trying to free some minds in some of the darkest times and just getting that out there into our experience.  if enough people actually experienced their presence and truth of being, they would have been changed on SOME level, and that memory would have implanted itself in our collective conscious.  regardless of the printed word bound to follow.  the courage, the daring to be free in the face of those seemingly unstoppable empires.  one pitting themself against an entire way of improper thinking/reasoning.  wow.

of course, as their teachings went on and gained popularity, it might have been a challenge to gain audience...  less announced appearances and more spontaneity, i would imagine.

I'd like to know what did I do to create all this snow? How about you Bob, I bet Rochester, NY is about as bad as Central Mass. I can't believe we're going to get ANOTHER 6-10" today. I'll spend some time envisioning 60 degrees and the birds singing, warm sunshine but I'm not very convinced it's going to make much difference!

i like this line from the above mentioned article:When people are unknowing of their inner wholeness, they tend to look for security outside of themselves. Uncertain of their place within the structured and ordered world around them, they often define themselves based upon their insecurities. Individuals thus become only pieces of their wholeness and like shards of glass from a beautiful vase, they bear little resemblance to their aggregate beauty.

hmmm?

      This right here is what makes this site special, all of you  talking about what no mainstream media or people would ever mention. These are   questions  that have  no answer  and anyone who says there is an answer is not being honest because there can not be an answer only discussion. The reason why there is no answer is reality is different for all of us ,  what one may experience is different from the rest . It is a collective concious we are all one concious exploring timespace and when we take mind altering drugs , meditation ,sacred or rythmic  dance , swimming with wild dolphins , or whatever your flavor is you can leave timespace  and go to spacetime where you are truly free, no boundries .  It sounds like quite a few of you have been there and that is awesome. I think once all of you read this  you will know right where I am coming from . " All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration , that we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream , and we are the imagination of ourselves." The late Great Bill Hicks quote .  I want to express my gratitude here today I am very grateful for all of you and this website I have learned so much.

      I truly love all of you , Eric

   I agree Fred picture you alone with no other animal around solitary, you are truly alone . There are no interactions with no one else living but you . Is how you come relize this solitary confinement . I relized in this in jail you are truely alone here not in negative way , but the big  but is even if they lock you up you can still leave your body and go to spacetime and enjoy .

     Love you all Eric

that's why i found the gnostic website so interesting, actually. they had an article titled "daath, the tree of knowledge"... now, from what i had gleaned before that sephirah was seldom talked about and actually shown as not connected to the rest of the tree. associated with lucifer and the fall, it is referred to as a cell or place of separation. but also above tiphareth which is associated with christ. a lot can be learned when one is "shut up" and left with just themselves. too bad it can't be as colorful for each of us as is was for captain jack sparrow when he was in limbo... ;)
but then again, maybe it can

    Captain Jack !!!!!

     Love all Eric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYX-UDLr6q0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmnW4EemvI0

  Wendy , Thank you for these vids.

   Love all<> Eric