One of the lesser known and fun aspects of this site, is clicking on to the forums page, scrolling to the bottom, and seeing who's on at any given moment. And then surmising whether they are just popping in for a quick look or posting or responding to some post. And who chooses to do any of that above mentioned and how. All kinds of other little mental games could be played along those lines...
ANYWAY. Since we all sort of agreed that all p.o.v.s are valid and we should respect one another's ideas, opinions and feelings on various subject matter, and also respond however we feel moved to do so, then no subjects or views are taboo or off-limits. Yea! Freedom of speech 101.
And we're all "adults", so we should be able to pick up the pieces, move on, and not be or act all butt-hurt. Love that word. So silly but so apropo.
Would be boring and non-productive to dodge around and just go on with the same old constantly citing the media approach. At least without any deeper discussion involved. Hey, I'm a fan of throwing opinions around as much as the next vegetable with some kind of pacifier in their mouth, ears or eyes (or other orifice of your choosing), but I also like some good old fashioned sharing of ideas instead of feeling like I'm on some talk show.
Good Times, everybody. Good Times.
And, please, would some of you dig deep and respond to Trish's recent post about what we're doing here. Or I'm going to freak out. And Brian tried even though he didn't have much new to say or add. Except some self-deprecation. Which might have been how you were feeling at the moment, Bri, but I feel was unwarranted because ALL perspectives are valid. And I appreciate your candor and directness
What "candor and directness" I had was inadvertent. I'm not sophisticated enough to do more than be truthful. I'm a one trick pony. Just tired of myself. Thanks though for your kind words. I'm worried Trish might bail out of frustration-I know I might. Both thoughts really bother me.
Only love and invitation. :-)
Really, we can only move from where we are now if there are enough people with the intention and the energy to do so. If there isn't at this time, it's ok - everything will ripen or fall off the tree in its own season.
I'll have to check out that "who's online" section sometime, I didn't know there was one.
If all opinions were actually welcomed here, I'd share mine. (Oh, I guess I just did.)
Oh, I guess we just did
And one for all. I'd like to hear ANYONE and EVERYONE's opinion on what they think that famous quip means.
Sorry, NOA, for being reactionary to your reactionary statement above. But, you must know that ALL perspectives are valid, beabecause that is what some of us have stated, time and time again, and that is what we've all agreed upon by joining this "public" forum. We also came around to realizing that, if you make pointed replies or comments, you may get such in return. It's only fair, after all.
And the only mediators and arbitrators are ourselves, as we are a collective TEAM.
On another note, I just saw The Imitation Game. It was wonderful and sparked lots of thinking and intuiting. Saw Jupiter Ascending two days ago and it did the same, but in different ways and different areas...
But, "seriously", I'm curious what y'all think about the "ofa & afo" I mentioned above.
And whether we can grow up and move on with our mission.
Thanks and best wishes. Let's see how this goes.
Sincerely,
Christopher
I need a minute though. Just wanted to let you know.
I'm thinking the only place to start considering the possibility for a reality of afo and ofa is figure out what consensus we have, how much we can add and how much we need. Maybe what we do when there is or is not agreement. I think we need to know and be able to rely on certain presets or precepts. I guess I'm saying we need to all start from a "same place."
Not exactly what I meant about afo & ofa, but I can see where your head was at at that moment. I meant what you actually thought about that phrase, not necessarily relating to the TT, but, so be it! I suppose it does anyway...
Maybe a good place to start would be with what we believe is possible and, for that matter, belief systems in general. Since those are the parameters we place upon ourselves and project upon the world. Probably should keep it simple/general, so we don't debate/argue/banter over religious preferences or dogma. But, since personal "religion" or spirituality is a MAJOR part/piece of this site, I think it's important to bring up.
And the flip side of that is fear and how we don't feel capable or empowered or "sovereign". Major issues there being death and slavery.
So, big question is "do you believe in life beyond death and what our physical senses perceive?"...
And, as far as slavery goes, there are many forms. Imposed from without and within. Karma. The chains that bind us. Sometimes passed on and down to us by "friends" and "loved ones" or even supposed "enemies".
So, perhaps a good place to start is with questions, to see what motivates each of us on a fundamental level and whether or not we think change or expanding our ideas of what's possible is... well, possible.
Just for the record, I DO believe in more (oh, so much more) than what my physical senses perceive and in life beyond death or whatever we are familiar with. I choose not to use names in reference to greater powers or being... And I believe it is possible to overcome imposed limitations, shortcomings and weaknesses and achieve a greater potential. Especially collectively. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this?...
Just maybe... We can start to open up more and share some of our issues that are likely holding us back. I mean, come on! We all live miles away from each other, so we should be able to act as impartial witnesses and sounding boards or mirrors for one another. WITHOUT judgment. Otherwise, in a lot of ways we can't move forward without cleaning out the old closets and clearing the air. It colors everything we think, say and do. I always wondered why there wasn't more emphasis on cleansing in the course. You sometimes have to tear down in order to build anew. Nothing will last and function upon a faulty foundation. Let it go, let it go...
Hi Chris,
I didn't make any agreements when I came to this forum. I feel it is very important to treat everyone I interact with respectfully and honor them as a brother or sister but I don't believe that that is the same as saying all points of view are valid. I am willing to entertain the idea that someone else's point of view may be more valid than my own but I do not believe that 2 conflicting points of view are always both true or valid. However I do believe that sometimes both can be. I had to look the word valid up in the dictionary before responding to this post.
I do not believe that judging the validity of a perspective is the same as judging a person. If I don't agree with someone's perspective, and point out the differences with my own perspective, I don't feel that I have dis-honored them in any way. I enjoy the idea that there are lots of people here at the gathering spot and elsewhere in the world that have differences of opinion than myself but I can not agree that all points of view are valid.
I think I should have added that I do not agree that all points of view are valid at this time. Perhaps I need to reconsider????
I suppose you are "right" when you dredge up the literal translation of "valid". Ah, language. What a tangled web we weave...
I was probably referring to from whomever's perspective from where they are at, at the time. It's right for them. And I don't want to convince anyone that my perspective is righter than theirs. I know correct grammar would be "more right", but righter sounded better.
The bottom line is, every human perspective is relative and not ultimate or empirical. Subject to change. From what I understand the "sovereign integral" to be, it is above and beyond these things, because it takes ALL of it into account.
That's what I'm aiming for. But the discursive games of this forum help to pass the "time" until that point of realization. Then I most likely won't be posting or communicating through this limited and limiting medium any longer. Most likely
Thanks Chris. Semantics seem to trip us up when there is no reading of facial expressions to help us understand one another here.
Here's to hoping we can read between the lines to form a greater understanding of all who post here.
This is my interpretation of this phrase:
- Each one is a contribution to the whole. I am not fulfilling my purpose if I am just living for myself and a few people, but when I am consciously living for the whole. Even if I am unconscious about it, I am still affecting the whole, but perhaps in ways that benefit some but harm others.
- I am reminded of a quote by Buddha which says something to the effect of, "when one is enlightened, the whole world is enlightened at once" - the one affects the whole because it is not separate.
- A group cannot thrive while ignoring its weak and suffering individuals. In some cultures in Africa I believe, if someone is suffering, the whole community surrounds them and cares for them until they are healed. Because the all is not separate from the one.
Very clear there! I'm still thinking about it. Popped into my head after seeing "The Imitation Game" when their team is faced with a tough choice. Resonances...
Sacrifice is maybe one part. Of selfishness perhaps. Personal desires and supposed boundaries... And FEAR. Of the unknown, of what may or may not happen. Expectations... EGO. Letting go and letting down one's guard and protectiveness. Trusting.
Andallofthatstuffthatyousaid. Great stuff. Glad you're feeling more clear and positive today, but also confused by the fear and distrust you expressed the other day. I'm pretty sure I'm not afraid of the "shadow side" of our collective behaviour, I just get impatient with the fear and worry that follow up people's discovery. Something for me to work on... Patience
To put it simply, humanity. Sovereignty. Not in support of any "nation" or "religion" or politics or institution or corporation. Just toward the WHOLE of humans. Getting it together and realizing their responsibility toward themselves and others. And the effect of their thoughts and emotions. Deciding which are worth perpetuating and which need to be worked through and let go of. Discrimination in what we take in and put out. And what we choose to manifest, irrespective of outside influences. ... it's a start, anyway
Found another awesome example as I've been reading through the entire WingMakers.us site again. It's from the glossary section describing the sovereign integral and entity in relation to the prime source. All in one and one in all... Not gonna quote it here, you'll just have to look it up if you feel like it.
On another note, here are some classic words from Jose Arguelles in reference to the haab vinyls meditation...
The one who knows: listens in silence, in order to integrate the universe based on knowledge that reaches the foundation where with great wisdom a seed is sown; a little ray of the hidden sun, which unifies all the pieces, to enter into the well of inner wisdom; where the student clears the mind, taking account of what is not yet ripe; dissipating the clouds of doubt; breaks with habitual caution and reaches the white light, closing the equivocating part and entering into a trance; receives the light of one who knows, in order to see into the darkness, touching a music of the future; with the song and the rhythm, located in the correct place where the food of divination is obtained; all that is lacking in order to obtain the precious stone.