Beyond One

   I/we/me agree,,,,I/we/and me like having someone to talk to !!haha!  As john Trudell says in the "all nite cafe".........."Sometimes,,,,,,, me and my mind,,,,don't get along..... very well" and "Sometimes,,,, we need ,,,,someone to talk to,,,,and,,,,, someone to cling to,,,,,,,a little bit of forever.....for a little while"""

I love diversity!

The vitality in variation (as iv become fond of saying lol) is something i enjoy deeply, love you all and the spices you come with that make an exotic tantilizing dish to my being. Such true dances(interatactions) with all that is, such fun and love.

 I think you're talking about yourself Fred. I sometimes feel that I'm completely alone and it's frightening. That there's literally Nobody Out There. Usually I shake it off by distracting myself or some perceptive person takes pity on me and strikes up a conversation or something. I first heard the idea of "there's nobody out there" during the est training by Werner Erhard and it only began to effect me this negative way much later when depression came back into my life. It takes a healthy, flexible mental state to tolerate it. When you are joyous and light, anything can be tolerated I guess...I remember after the training that other people were CLEARLY just manifestations of me (with humility) and I chose to reach out to "me" (strange) and it made things all right. I was so awake that other people could see I really saw them and they were transformed-kinda like the zen master for a few days I guess.Hah. It was so profound to live within that experience. It only lasted a brief time before inner demons crept back into control of my perception and I became my usual limited, selfish self again. I think "Unity" is another way of saying alone-at least that's what my ego does with it.

So I guess I actually have two perceptions of that experience of 'unity'-of there being only one consciousness, one comes from acceptance and one comes from rejecting it out of fear and boredom... My theory is that we are each complete and whole manifestations of the One. I am god-you are god-we are god-not just pieces of god-the whole enchilada-but it's just god and that's all she wrote.

A Mayan traditional greeting, which means "I am another yourself"

"after the training that other people were CLEARLY just manifestations of me (with humility)"

Love the wisdom here Brian, and I so agree with Thomas the exotic spices of the Gathering delightful.

Most essentially, what each of us is is open intelligence or the awareness of the ever unfolding and self-releasing now moment. The unpredictable and diverse, perpetual flow of ever changing sensations, emotions, thoughts, situations, people and experiences that energetically display within and self-liberate from our awake presence are a complimentary counter-point to the perfectly still, clear, open, inclusive space of awareness. The totality of the now moment, in all of it's apparent diversity, is infused and enveloped within the singularity of our open intelligence.

Buddhism speaks of the middle way. In popular culture this has been interpreted, from a limited understanding of its ultimate meaning, to mean moderation in all things. In fact, what is indicated by the phrase "the middle way" and the teachings about it is that what is to be recognized and realized cannot be found in any of the conceptual extremes of the mind and imagination: oneness vs diversity, inside vs outside, existence vs non-existence, etc.

In a pointing out instruction from the Bon tradition a person is asked to notice what happens when one looks at a thought; it disappears. Then one is asked to look at the one who is looking - this also disappears. Then one is instructed to rest in and as this unspeakable state and get used to it.

...that we'll have to get beyond.  Our minds can play with it, but it's only a toy in the playpen of thinking mind until we actually step into it -- then it's a state of being, and not in the least bit lonely or boring.  And if we step into it and it goes away, we don't need to worry of fret.  This is natural and to be expected, in my experience.  We just go on.  We're made to do that and succeed, eventually.  Patience.  Let's give ourselves a break!

John, you sketched a classic way to get beyond: "...notice what happens when one looks at a thought; it disappears. Then one is asked to look at the one who is looking - this also disappears. Then one is instructed to rest in and as this unspeakable state and get used to it." Using mind to go beyond mind.  A kind of ju-jitsu.  Absolutely brilliant.

Another way is to let everything that comes up -- life situations, thoughts, sensations, emotions (negative and positive) -- just be in our awareness.  Maintaining the position of netural witness in the midst of it all is the difficult part.  But it's very, very simple.  We do it , we fail, we do it again, we fail, and so on until awareness (being aware of itself) is the atmosphere in which we live.  And then we'll still live a normal human life, but freely.

Additonal piece:  Two saviors we can always call upon when in need:  Awareness of the breath: pause, count it, follow it, observe it.  And nature: taking a walk or a sojourn in a natural environment.  It's there to teach us what's real and true.  Because we forget.

Last little piece:  We can give up our suffering.  I've heard it said many times, but I only recently realized how do-able it is.  (Duh...)  If conditioned thinking says it isn't, we can disregard the thinking entirely.  (Requires a little awareness in the moment.)   And go for a walk, dance, seek out positive company.

So, this going beyond...  What else matters in the end?  What else are we here for?  What do we need to worry about?

Bob-I have no idea what we're here for-LOL...so I decided to accept two things I heard from smart people: First was from the Dalai Lama-he was asked "what is our purpose?' and he says "To be happy" and he smiles that really beautiful, happy smile of his

And 2nd someone said the purpose of life is to just be (bit of a koan there-hehe)

And you said "If conditioned thinking says it isn't, we can disregard the thinking entirely. " which is the only power I've been able to muster recently. I hear myself saying something negative like I'll get hurt at work or pulled over by a cop blah blah blah and I just say to myself that it goes the way I say it goes and then say a prayer or statement to describe what I want to happen. Sometimes it scares me to know I have this power-when I stop to think for just a moment- that I am only using it a tiny fraction of the time. I went to this support group in '09 for people who were out of work and the leader sits us down around a big table with lots of magazines, scissors, construction paper and glue sticks and tells us to each create a mosaic of images to show our goals for the future. Damned if every single one of those images on mine didn't come true in very short order-magic!!

that picture was a little big sorry...

This may be a little off topic but maybe not. It's a cool snippit from a movie -ahem-a while back...that I can appreciate a bit better now than when I saw it. It occurred to me the G-spot is one of the things he talks about................

Brian,

I don't think the clip from My Dinner with Andre is off-topic at all.  (I saw the film when it was in the theaters, and it was one of the most riveting films I've ever seen.  Imagine... just a real-time conversation between two guys at a restaurant.)

The Dalai Lama's comment that our purpose is to be happy, as well as the other one that it's just to be -- they're the same thing.  Both are about going beyond the limitations of thinking.  He's happy because he's done that (in my opinion), not because of anything the world has given him. 

And your dismissing the validity of negative thoughts when the come up is doing that same work (again, in my opinion).  I'm sure you've seen the bumper sticker, "You don't have to believe your thoughts."

Relative to that, another wonderful teacher, Anam Thubten, said that in a sense, awakening is about recognizing thought as thought (rather than as reality).  So there you go.  For what it's worth, you have my support on your journey.  You have everyone's support who's on the same journey.

 The other day a friend told me-after attending a workshop on meditation- how freeing it was to be told to see her thoughts as just thoughts-no more significant than a breeze just passing through. She had never tried meditating before and it was nice to be reminded of it. It is surprisingly easy to achieve a state of peace or rest if I meditate yet I don't do it. My mind tells me it hurts to meditate-LOL. Really, the pain begins after the benefits wear off and I begin thinking in my usual manner.

Right, that's how it goes for everyone who does this, I believe.  Thinking mind is always ready to jump in (or more likely, creep in unnoticed) and interpret or evaluate the experience (whatever it is).  But the beauty of this is that whenever we recognize the thought as being just thought, we're instantly back in the "meditation", even if we're doing "something else."  It's just being conscious of what's going on -- and being conscious of our being conscious. 

When thoughts abate and there's a space, we're in the state of mind that John describes at the end of his post above.  ...Then, thoughts return and we continue the dance.  The whole process is so dynamic and fluid... it's pretty cool, actually.  It gets strangely fascinating, in my experience.  In the process we get very intimate with ourselves, and a big inner space opens up (what a relief!).  Then it goes away again as thinking returns... and so on.  Yup, pretty cool overall. 

There are people who have done this kind of thing for so long that they live pretty much all the time in the "big space" (which is also joy, clarity, and love), even when thinking is going on -- and that's living in Oneness (to return to the original idea in this string).  I guess you'd say they're the masters.  Although I'm no master, I'm finding that I enjoy it, even when it hurts.   :-) 

Thinkers think and doers do. But until the thinkers do and the doers think, progress will be just another word in the already overburdened vocabulary of the talkers who talk.

I shan't give this another thought  ..........

I'm so sorry, Fred. 

Blessings.